Drinking discussions

[Wet Dream]

You guys are great.

[Moneypitt]

When I speculate on the odds that Moneypitt, Wet Dream, THOR, and other people who are defensive about OUI, as it relates to boating safety, I would put the odds they've operated a vehicle intoxicated recently at 100%. I'm not talking about what they say they do... I'm talking about real life.
Tom, just because I refuse to join the "sky is falling" attitude about operating/driving drunk doesn't mean I condone it, nor do I do it. I think alot of RD's arguement has merit when it comes to actual imparement. I haven't operated a boat with any alcohol in my system in over 10 years. I have, and continue to, driven a few blocks from the bar to home after consuming 3 or 4 drinks in 2 or 3 hours. I learned the threshhold of .08 and am very careful to NOT drive until detoxed below the limit. Food, soda, even coffee kill the time while waiting. Just last Saturday night I called a curtesy cab here in town because I didn't want to listen to the shitty music in the bar any longer, and I felt I was probably above the limit.....I do not advocate any type of impared operation of anything. I also have no tolerance for SOBER drivers/operators that hurt and kill people on a daily basis without the stigma that accompanys the same results if a couple of beers were involved. Not everyone has the same tolerance for alcohol, yet the laws have no way to take that into account. To be punished for what MIGHT happen if you drive at .08 is, IMO, wrong. Unless you add anyone with a cell phone within the driver's reach, who knows what could happen if it rings......Or fastfood, or maps, or????.......Tom there alot of things I have done in the past, as I'm sure alot of people could admit to, but endangering, hurting, or killing other people while driving/operating, aren't one of them........MP
PS, Oh and thanks for including me in your discussion.......Ray

[Tom Brown]

I think alot of RD's arguement has merit when it comes to actual imparement.
I agree, Ray.
The original idea behind the thread is that there are certain things I know to be true, that aren't facts. These things may be well studied and well supported, but there is a gray zone in there somewhere.
This topic is extremely polarized. Both sides know they are right. Some people are so convicted, they seem close to violence... or, at least, talk about it.
It strikes me kind of like political views in that the two sides are oil and water. Both sides think it would be wonderful if the other side would just back off.
Somehow, we need to find a way to live together.
Oh.... and you're always welcome in the discussions.

[Jbb]

Somehow, we need to find a way to live together.
Somehow......you need to find a way to shut the hell up....

[Tom Brown]

You're not particularly in touch with your feelings and shit, are you Brian?
Well... I'd like to stay and chat but I am heading out to meet some friends.

[Jbb]

You're not particularly in touch with your feelings and shit, are you Brian?
Only when Im drunk....

[Moneypitt]

I agree, Ray.
The original idea behind the thread is that there are certain things I know to be true, that aren't facts. These things may be well studied and well supported, but there is a gray zone in there somewhere.
This topic is extremely polarized. Both sides know they are right. Some people are so convicted, they seem close to violence... or, at least, talk about it.
It strikes me kind of like political views in that the two sides are oil and water. Both sides think it would be wonderful if the other side would just back off.
Somehow, we need to find a way to live together.
Oh.... and you're always welcome in the discussions.
Tom, the gray area is based on driving/operating abilities and tolerance to alcohol. Their is no logical way to establish abilities, or lack of abilities, (except if you have wrecks SOBER there is a good chance your abilities are somewhat lacking), so they do the only thing they can, they punish everyone based on the ones with the least abilities. If you can't drive/operate SOBER, a couple of strong whiffs of a wine cork could put you over the edge. So we now punish everyone based on these stats........I feel I have a very good grip on driving/operating because the vehicle/boat is talking to me as I drive it. I build them, tune them, listen to them at all times, (no loud stereos), and as such, I feel, as RD does, "at one with the machine"......Unfortunatly, the legal system has no means to evaluate abilities other than a very basic driving test. How many times have you seen a total dweeb holding up highway traffic because they have never been anywhere but the grocery store before, and now they're on the highway in total fear? I have heard people, people that have been driving cars for years, say they are afraid to pass a big truck!!!!!! I would rajther go down the road with a group of truckers than any group of cars!......I will admit it took me a long time to see the real downside of impared driving, not so long for impared operating......And YES Alan, I know the stats, and I know the imparement is there even if it doesn't feel like it. I sweat the .08 deal so much more now. 30 years ago it was .15 and I traveled thousands of impared miles without, (knock on wood) any accidents or consequences. No more......I will not drink and boat, period, nor will I work on the PS boat while drinking, period.........I do enjoy a couple of cocktails with both of my friends, but moderation is the key..........Ray

[Jbb]

RD.....At one with the Silver Bullet.....
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/181rd_21.jpg

[thatguy]

Tom,
There is a third variety of person and probably as many opinions as there are people.
I feel there is a great deal of truth in your statement regarding those defending light drinking and operating vehicles to justify ones own habits. If that is a correct take on your "hypothesis". It is a form of denial. I point no fingers here, since 3 fingers point at ones self when doing that.
For almost 40 years I drank and drove every weekend. My wife and I would go out to clubs resteraunts and socialize like all 20-30+ year olds.
You are correct in that the " I am fine to drive" threshhold raises as one gets older and has never been in any incident.
HOWEVER, at age 41, when I was arrested in Anchorage Alaska for DWI that house of mirrors came crashing down hard. That was 4 1/2 years ago.
Anchorage has by far the harshest penalties for offenders.
I was doing 78 in a 35. Blew a 1.3 and told the cop that I would be glad to blow in his tester since I felt I was not over .08.
Bail= $1500.00
Jail = 30 days with 27 suspended, $95.00 a day charge for jail time on ANY alchohol related conviction in Anchorage.
License = 3 year suspension, or 90 days and 3 years SR22 insurance.
SR22 = $1750.00 every 6 months. Alaska has the some of the highest rates due to collisions in winter. Toatal= $10,500.00
Car= 30 day impound REGARDLESS of ownership
Mine was a rental, so it was impound fees of $1185.00 PLUS 30 day rental.
Total impound charge?= $2150.00
Alcohol awareness= 3 days at $150.00 per day
Fine = $5000.00 w/ $2500 suspended.
MADD lecture = 1 day at $250.00
Alchohol knowledge evaluation and screening(ASAP) =$150.00
Had to fly to Anchorage for EACH phase over 2 months. Missing work and receiving a demotion since my position required current license.
Total cost including 3 years Sr22? = $17,791.00
-1500.00 Bail
= $16,291.00
PLUS airfare and weeks of missed work. (thousands)
That got my attention, in more ways than one. I thought about the countless times I had done it. To the point of not even believing it.
But when those bracelets snap on, the charade is over.
I realized that it was a miricle I had never got killed or killed somebody else.
I could remember many times I was far more drunk than the day of my arrest.
Going of the road and shit like that.
So can say with 100% truth that when I know I will drive, I DO NOT DRINK.
When I go boating I take 2 beers for the whole day. My wife takes a cooler full, but she doesn't drive the boats and I don't drink her brand.
When I get home? I go Hanson if I feel like it!
I still drink. I love a good throw down. But I know I already got my break and I do not disrespect that.
Rambling aside, my catagory is "a 2beer drinker" who is not a liar or hypocrite.
Probably a lot of us. And many more to follow.
As soon as that first arrest happens, most will change their attitude.
Either by money or the wake up call.
Tommy Sorry for rambling
PS- These are for first offense in Anchorage. You don't want to know the second or third offense penalties!!
AND any DUI on record ANYWHERE OR ANY TIME in your life is considered the first one.

[Boatcop]

Everyone knows my stance on this subject, so I won't bore you with facts.
All I know, is that whatever the reason for not drinking and driving (boats, motor vehicles, etc.), be it because you feel it's the right thing to do or you're concerned with going through something like thatguy did, (Fines, costs, chrome bracelets, etc)........
........The only thing that matters is that you're driving sober.
For those who do that, I sincerely thank you.
For those who don't? Your time will come.
Let's just hope you run into me, rather than some innocent boater.