Reply With QuoteI appreciate your desire to have your stuff working right.
However, based on your usage, I'd recommend that you invest in a decent shop vac, or simply fix the leaks. Why do you want to modify the performance?
AFR 429/460 street heads
cam it under 280* total duration, over .550" lift, so go roller solid IMO (Hyd roller is just WAY too much $$$$).
Dual plane intake like the Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap.
If the carb you have is a 750, keep it.
Put ARP bolts in the rods and stud the mains if you feel like it (ARP again).
Clervite 77 bearings, moly plasma rings, nothign special needed.
CR it to about 10:1 and run premium.
It'll be a solid and reliable motor, and may be well in the vicinity of 500HP, almost 2x it's condition as is/was new.
My 2 cents.
This sounds like a pretty good way to go, but here http://www.airflowresearch.com/, I can't find anything on AFR making a head for the 460.
I appreciate your desire to have your stuff working right.
However, based on your usage, I'd recommend that you invest in a decent shop vac, or simply fix the leaks. Why do you want to modify the performance?
Rebuilt(new impeller, wear ring, and bearings and added a place diverter) the pump 4 months ago with the help of those on the ***boat forum. The boat runs great. It's just, the engine leaks oil, and it is old. Although, the engine still runs strong.
Sounds like a great start! Ya might want to check into an American Turbine (AT) bowl. They flow more water and thus, create more nozzle pressure than a comparable berk. The AT bowl is also a bit longer than the berk, and will lower your thrust line (this is good!). I have a MUCH smaller boat than yours, but for comparison's sake, I picked up about 3-4 mph by switching my old berk jc (read "old and not in prime condition) out for an AT. I also saw some great gains on my top end by installing a loader scoop. There are so many aspects of the pump you can change to coax more performance out with stock power. Wedges and nozzle inserts come to mind. The biggest dilemma I see with your current setup is to get the impeller cut to the proper size for your application. You may want to hold off on this until you finish your engine work, should you choose to go this route. But, you're probably not getting all of the power out of your 460 that's already available because its spinning too slow to reach peak power with that big impeller. Some of the engine guys here on the board can chime in and verify or nullify this.
I have a fairly bone stock 460 with the dreaded D3VE heads. Hardin logs w/risers and a 3 1/2" thru-hull exhaust expel gases. A mallory breakerless distributor set at 35 degrees full advance replaced the old points, and an offenhauser alum intake was installed because I got it cheap, it removed a ton of weight from the engine, and it looked pretty....lol. My point is (if I have one) that with my current setup, I'm able to spin a heavy stainless steel A impeller to 4500 rpm. My old aluminum A spun 4800 rpm. Here she is:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...h/DSC01910.jpg
First and foremost, you need to decide what your goals for the boat are! If I understand correctly, the boat fits your needs quite well... the only problem is that it leaks a little oil. If this is correct, just fix the leaks and run it!
First and foremost, you need to decide what your goals for the boat are! If I understand correctly, the boat fits your needs quite well... the only problem is that it leaks a little oil. If this is correct, just fix the leaks and run it!
Based on your usage, I'd recommend that you invest in a decent shop vac, or simply fix the leaks. Why do you want to modify the performance?
I'd agree with these two. A 23' pump boat isn't going to be very fast even with 500+ hp. Fix the leaks and enjoy it for what it is. I'd get a full gasket kit and start from the bottom up. Check your oil pan bolts. Mine started leaking from the pan after a few years of running, despite being torqued to spec they managed to shake themselves loose. I ended up replacing the gaskets, then locktite'd em and torqued to spec again.
I found them loose last year towards the end of season. I didn't want to pull the motor til I was done boating. I managed to get on 85% of them with a box end wrench and snugged em up. This got me through the rest of the season without leaking. They were all pretty much finger tight (some not even that). When I finally pulled the motor, then the pan I could see where the gasket had actually split on a couple bolt holes.
I appreciate your desire to have your stuff working right.
However, based on your usage, I'd recommend that you invest in a decent shop vac, or simply fix the leaks.
Suck up the oil with a shop vac, that's a good idea. No likelihood of igniting the oil?
Why do you want to modify the performance?
That is a very good question...
Because it can be done? Because I will be fixing the leaks and why not? Because I want to rip the arms of of my brother's sockets when he slalom starts? Burn more gasoline?
Honestly I do not have a good reason other then it would be cool.
IMO I would just replace the gaskets/seals if your main goal is to stop the oil leaks. If you want a major performance boost, than thats another matter. Do some research and find out what parts to get. Also make sure your pump isnt worn out.
Because it can be done? Because I will be fixing the leaks and why not? Because I want to rip the arms of of my brother's sockets when he slalom starts? Burn more gasoline?
Honestly I do not have a good reason other then it would be cool.
LOL, that's an honest answer there !
It may help if you let everyone know an expected budget. You can then figure out the best bang for your buck.
If your engine runs strong and simply has some oil leaks, then why not take the time to fix the leaks?
The engine in your boat looks like an all original marine issue 460, and was rated at about 325-330 hp at the flywheel. With a rebuild, your particular engine has the components existing to make a very nice and long-term reliable 400 hp motor no problem whatsoever, and even more than that with a slightly bigger cam than the one needed to get to 400 hp.
Unless you are looking for 500 hp or more, I see no reason to spend money on aluminum heads as you simply don't need them to get there. Aluminum heads will also dictate the need for a complete new roller rocker valve train, etc. This stuff all adds up very quickly. But, if you want an exotic engine with some wow factor, then that's a different story. I think you'd be surprised how much potential your current engine has with a rebuild.
I am not a fan of pre-assembled engines that are sent down assembly lines, so to speak, when one can have a hand-built engine that is specially prepared for the application. Also, you will get differing views on this but I will say that I very much prefer the 4.3 stroker engine (521/533) over the 4.5 stroker engine (545/557) for a number of reasons.
Please describe what you want in an engine and you will get some more specific suggestions.
LO
If your engine runs strong and simply has some oil leaks, then why not take the time to fix the leaks?
At first I was thinking "that's exactly what I was planning on doing and maybe doing a little more", but I see that you are saying just fix the leaks and don't freshen up the engine. The age of the engine is the determining factor, I thought I would try to do the right thing for the engine. Perhaps I should leave well enough alone.
The engine in your boat looks like an all original marine issue 460, and was rated at about 325-330 hp at the flywheel. With a rebuild, your particular engine has the components existing to make a very nice and long-term reliable 400 hp motor no problem whatsoever, and even more than that with a slightly bigger cam than the one needed to get to 400 hp.
400+ hp sounds like a great way to go; a little more power, while keeping the torque down lower. I know that's what you do for a living, is it appropriate to ask how you would do it?
Unless you are looking for 500 hp or more, I see no reason to spend money on aluminum heads as you simply don't need them to get there. Aluminum heads will also dictate the need for a complete new roller rocker valve train, etc. This stuff all adds up very quickly. But, if you want an exotic engine with some wow factor, then that's a different story. I think you'd be surprised how much potential your current engine has with a rebuild.
500 hp would be the high end of the what I would want, at least that's what I think right now.
As far as cost goes:
Heads - $1000?
Roller Rocker Valve train - $300?
Or would it be closer to:
Heads - $2000?
Roller Rocker Valve train - $400?
Other stuff needed - $800?
I am not a fan of pre-assembled engines that are sent down assembly lines, so to speak, when one can have a hand-built engine that is specially prepared for the application. Also, you will get differing views on this but I will say that I very much prefer the 4.3 stroker engine (521/533) over the 4.5 stroker engine (545/557) for a number of reasons.
Please describe what you want in an engine and you will get some more specific suggestions.
LO
Currently, I like:
Super reliable, never had a single problem
Sounds good. I am not a fan of loud so much as the deep rumble.
Decent power.
Things I don't like:
Oil leaks
How I would like it:
Super reliable
Sound good
No leaks
Extra power.
As far as budget, I was thinking $1000 on the low end and $3000 on the high end. Of course that would include whatever I need to fix the leaks.
Amm,
Sounds like you have already investigated your oil leaks as coming from the valve covers, dip stick tube and "down low." You might want to try new valve cover gaskets and snugging up the oil pan bolts, etc. Don't overtighten them and thereby mash the gaskets out of shape, but simply snug things up firmly. Let new gaskets (such as replacing the valve cover gaskets) "relax" overnight and then check tightness again in the morning...and then again after heat cycling the engine. These sustained upper rpm V8 engines require more preventative maintenance than their 2000 rpm passenger car application counterparts, and this includes evaluating oil leaks and addressing them.
As the engine runs strong, I'll bet that a good tune up and once-over will allow it to provide plenty of continued service without rebuilding. Perform a cranking compression test and see what it tells you about internal engine condition. Replacing that old Holley 600cfm with an 850 cfm (Holley List # 4781) may offer more power, although due to the current impeller cut you might not notice much of a difference in the upper rpm range where it would help the most.
If you have firmly decided on doing a complete rebuild, then a suggested combo might be something along the lines of: Stock block with oiling mods as outlined on our website's Technical Pages (www.highflowdynamics.net)
.030" overbore forged flat top pistons
OEM prepped 460 rods with quality rod bolts
OEM prepped 460 crank
HV oil pump
CompCams cam kit with springs and lifters, such as XE262H (513/520, 218/224, 110*)
Well ported D3VE heads (that you already have) with stainless 2.19" intake / 1.72 exhaust valves, requisite port work, springs retainers, locks 3-angle valve job, etc.
Weiand Stealth part number 8012 aluminum intake manifold
Holley 850 cfm List # 4781
Recurved Duraspark distributor or MSD breakerless
(this makes about 9.5:1 c/r)
The above cam may be run with oem valve train hardware with a mild spring upgrade (110-120 pound seat) and oem valve train. What you chose to actually run depends on other variables, and this combo is only a rough suggestion and omits some details.
With the above camshaft, 400 hp+/- is about what you'd get, assuming proper and thorough workmanship and good tune. You may not necessarily experience the full power capability of the engine due to the big impeller, but it would certainly be stronger than the current build.
Price will vary from shop-to-shop depending on labor rates, parts used, what exactly goes into the build, etc. I would suggest a place with plenty of 429/460 experience and/or marine application experience, as all engine designs have their idiosynchracies and areas that require special attention. Also, get a firm quote as these builds usually cost more than you may think, even if you attempt them entirely on your own. The worst thing you can do is attempt to do a good build on a tight budget, run out of capital, and then compromise the build due to exhausted funds.
Feel free to call if you choose to shop around for a rebuild or want more details and/or pricing, etc. But again, I'll bet your engine can provide continued reliable service, and this might offer you more time to research the rebuild and see that it is executed thoroughly and properly.
LO
Posting Permissions