Bush's Tax on the Wealthy

[bigq]

Those figures are "fuzzy math". Here's the tax rate for Income Taxes in the US. (Adjusted Gross Income)
Single
0 - $7,550 10% of the amount over $0
$7,550 - $30,650 $755 plus 15% of the amount over 7,550
$30,650 - $74,200 $4,220.00 plus 25% of the amount over 30,650
$74,200 - $154,800 $15,107.50 plus 28% of the amount over 74,200
$154,800 - $336,550 $37,675.50 plus 33% of the amount over 154,800
$336,550 - no limit $97,653.00 plus 35% of the amount over 336,550
Married/Joint
$0 - $15,100 10% of the amount over $0
$15,100 - $61,300 $1,510.00 plus 15% of the amount over 15,100
$61,300 - $123,700 $8,440.00 plus 25% of the amount over 61,300
$123,700 - $188,450 $24,040.00 plus 28% of the amount over 123,700
$188,450 - $336,550 $42,170.00 plus 33% of the amount over 188,450
$336,550 - no limit $91,043.00 plus 35% of the amount over 336,550
Show me where the ultra wealthy have a lower tax rate than the middle class?
I don't advocate the wealthy paying a lower tax rate, and the tables above show that they don't.
On Buffet's hypothetical 100 Mil income, his income tax is around 35%. His secretary at $60,000 is closer to 24%. And those figures are without any deductions. That secretary with typical deductions would probably lower the tax rate to around 12-15%, while deductions for Buffet wouldn't lower his 35% rate any.
People throw up figures and no body questions them. A few minutes with a calculator would show that Buffet's statements and figures are misleading and definitely not correct.
YUP!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Those figures are "fuzzy math". Here's the tax rate for Income Taxes in the US. (Adjusted Gross Income)
Single
0 - $7,550 10% of the amount over $0
$7,550 - $30,650 $755 plus 15% of the amount over 7,550
$30,650 - $74,200 $4,220.00 plus 25% of the amount over 30,650
$74,200 - $154,800 $15,107.50 plus 28% of the amount over 74,200
$154,800 - $336,550 $37,675.50 plus 33% of the amount over 154,800
$336,550 - no limit $97,653.00 plus 35% of the amount over 336,550
Married/Joint
$0 - $15,100 10% of the amount over $0
$15,100 - $61,300 $1,510.00 plus 15% of the amount over 15,100
$61,300 - $123,700 $8,440.00 plus 25% of the amount over 61,300
$123,700 - $188,450 $24,040.00 plus 28% of the amount over 123,700
$188,450 - $336,550 $42,170.00 plus 33% of the amount over 188,450
$336,550 - no limit $91,043.00 plus 35% of the amount over 336,550
Show me where the ultra wealthy have a lower tax rate than the middle class?
I don't advocate the wealthy paying a lower tax rate, and the tables above show that they don't.
On Buffet's hypothetical 100 Mil income, his income tax is around 35%. His secretary at $60,000 is closer to 24%. And those figures are without any deductions. That secretary with typical deductions would probably lower the tax rate to around 12-15%, while deductions for Buffet wouldn't lower his 35% rate any.
People throw up figures and no body questions them. A few minutes with a calculator would show that Buffet's statements and figures are misleading and definitely not correct.
So you are saying that Buffett is lying about how much he paid in taxes?
That's why I posted the article. I know what the basic tax rates are.
This response seems a little different than your first. Thanks for clarifying
I would be in favor of a flat tax rate across the board or some kind of a national sales tax so you only pay on use.
I disagree with taxing the rich more or less than someone with average income for several reason.
We agree about this issue.

[OutCole'd]

How about a flat tax? No more write offs....?

[boatsnblondes]

I would say that 17% of his income on a yearly basis is more money than any of us will ever see in our lifetime.....just becuase his rate is lower, does not mean he isn't already paying a vast sum to prop up the dems plan to add as much pork into every spending bill as they possibly can, while shortening thier work week, and giving themselves yet another raise, all this time treading water at a disgusting 11% approval rate...they are so bad, even Bush is telling them to get off thier collective fat asses and do SOMETHING, ANYTHING, to earn thier keep....

[ULTRA26 # 1]

How about a flat tax? No more write offs....?
I agree.

[Boatcop]

So you are saying that Buffett is lying about how much he paid in taxes?
I'm not saying he lied. Just that he included payroll taxes he paid on behalf of his employees into his percentage to come up with the 17.7%.
Payroll taxes are paid by EVERY employer, including my parents who are FAR from "wealthy" running a Mom & Pop Office Supply store, barely keeping afloat.
Take out the Payroll Taxes and his income tax rate is around 45%.
Don't you think that there's something wrong with the Government taking nearly half of the earnings from the people who are providing jobs, goods and services for others? If the "wealthy" could retain more of their earnings, they could provide more jobs, higher salaries for their employees, and lower costs for goods and services. That would increase the economy and the quality of life for all involved.
Don't think for a minute that the "wealthy" are paying those higher taxes. They are passed on to us, in the form of higher prices on goods and services. Or their manufacturing and/or support being outsourced to other countries, thereby removing jobs from the US workforce.
Higher taxes on the wealthy are higher taxes on EVERYBODY. We just don't pay our share directly to the Govt. We pay them in the form of higher prices.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I'm not saying he lied. Just that he included payroll taxes he paid on behalf of his employees into his percentage to come up with the 17.7%.
Payroll taxes are paid by EVERY employer, including my parents who are FAR from "wealthy" running a Mom & Pop Office Supply store, barely keeping afloat.
Take out the Payroll Taxes and his income tax rate is around 45%.
Don't you think that there's something wrong with the Government taking nearly half of the earnings from the people who are providing jobs, goods and services for others? If the "wealthy" could retain more of their earnings, they could provide more jobs, higher salaries for their employees, and lower costs for goods and services. That would increase the economy and the quality of life for all involved.
Don't think for a minute that the "wealthy" are paying those higher taxes. They are passed on to us, in the form of higher prices on goods and services. Or their manufacturing and/or support being outsourced to other countries, thereby removing jobs from the US workforce.
Higher taxes on the wealthy are higher taxes on EVERYBODY. We just don't pay our share directly to the Govt. We pay them in the form of higher prices.
IMO, if he only paid 17% he did alot more than include payroll taxes.
If the "wealthy" could retain more of their earnings, they could provide more jobs, higher salaries for their employees, and lower costs for goods and services. That would increase the economy and the quality of life for all involved.
This is a good concept if it worked. What makes you think that these folks don't put as much as they possibly can in thier pockets? We don't agree as I view many of these types as drivin by greed.

[bigq]

IMO, if he only paid 17% he did alot more than include payroll taxes.
This is a good concept if worked. What makes you think that these folks don't put as much as they possibly can in thier pockets? We don't agree as I view many of these types as drivin by greed.
Sorry Ultra, but that is not a logical view. How do you think small business grow into huge corporations and hire all these people? If they take all the profits for "greed" how can one possible grow. Huge corporations don't just hatch one day into a mult imillon or billion dollar business most take years with a lot of efforts from many people.
most of the sories I read of very successful people don't start a business to become of a millionaire, but are very passionate about what they do and realize they need more people to make it happen. The money comes in time, but not the main drive as you think.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Sorry Ultra, but that is not a logical view. How do you think small business grow into huge corporations and hire all these people? If they take all the profits for "greed" how can one possible grow. Huge corporations don't just hatch one day into a mult imillon or billion dollar business most take years with a lot of efforts from many people.
most of the sories I read of very successful people don't start a business to become of a millionaire, but are very passionate about what they do and realize they need more people to make it happen. The money comes in time, but not the main drive as you think.
I wasn't referring to small business or growing a business.
I think you are being naive if you don't believe that much of this Country's wealth is greed driven.
BC's comment and my response were about the wealthy.

[Boatcop]

I wasn't referring to small business or growing a business.
I think you are being naive if you don't believe that much of this Country's wealth is greed driven.
BC's comment and my response was about the wealthy.
All large corporations were started as small businesses by poor folks with a vision and a dream. If you classify a desire to improve yourself and your standing as greed, then so be it.
Even those born or married into wealth (Kennedy's, Heinz, Pelosi, etc) got there by their family's starting small and building their empire.
If I make widgets in my garage and go sell them door to door I am a small businessman. If I make good widgets and they sell well, I'll have to hire someone to sell them while I make them. If my demand overwhelms what I can make, I'll have to hire someone to help me build them. As the widgets become more popular, I'll have to move out of my garage and into a factory to build widgets and hire more people. Then I'll have to hire someone to maintain the widget machines, and people for widget support. Then more sales people to sell widgets.
I might open a widget retail store, hiring more people. The widget store grows into a chain of widget stores, and I'll have to diversify and buy other companies and products to compliment the widgets in the widget store.
I'll open up overseas offices to supply widgets to the world. Now I have hundreds, if not thousands of direct employees, not to mention the indirect employees, such as the folks who supply raw materials for my widgets, the delivery/trucking companies who deliver those raw materials and my widgets. The machine companies who make machines to build my widgets, etc. etc. etc.
And so on, and so on. Eventually I'll grow into a multi-national widget corporation, and I'll be worth millions.
Now is that "greed", as opposed to if I just stayed in my garage making widgets and selling them door to door?