Bush's Tax on the Wealthy

[ULTRA26 # 1]

All large corporations were started as small businesses by poor folks with a vision and a dream. If you classify a desire to improve yourself and your standing as greed, then so be it.
Even those born or married into wealth (Kennedy's, Heinz, Pelosi, etc) got there by their family's starting small and building their empire.
If I make widgets in my garage and go sell them door to door I am a small businessman. If I make good widgets and they sell well, I'll have to hire someone to sell them while I make them. If my demand overwhelms what I can make, I'll have to hire someone to help me build them. As the widgets become more popular, I'll have to move out of my garage and into a factory to build widgets and hire more people. Then I'll have to hire someone to maintain the widget machines, and people for widget support. Then more sales people to sell widgets.
I might open a widget retail store, hiring more people. The widget store grows into a chain of widget stores, and I'll have to diversify and buy other companies and products to compliment the widgets in the widget store.
I'll open up overseas offices to supply widgets to the world. Now I have hundreds, if not thousands of direct employees, not to mention the indirect employees, such as the folks who supply raw materials for my widgets, the delivery/trucking companies who deliver those raw materials and my widgets. The machine companies who make machines to build my widgets, etc. etc. etc.
And so on, and so on. Eventually I'll grow into a multi-national widget corporation, and I'll be worth millions.
Now is that "greed", as opposed to if I just stayed in my garage making widgets and selling them door to door?
You're right, as always. Are you ever wrong, Alan? There is no greed in big business or big govt., nope
I have an idea. Why not make big business and the wealthy tax exempt. Even lower prices and more jobs for us little guys to pay the taxes. :2purples:
If you classify a desire to improve yourself and your standing as greed, then so be it.
Did I say this somewhere? Please don't twist my words.
If the "wealthy" could retain more of their earnings, they could provide more jobs, higher salaries for their employees, and lower costs for goods and services. That would increase the economy and the quality of life for all involved.
What they could do and what they do aren't necessarily the same.

[Moneypitt]

Well Alan, John could easily see your side of this story IF you were to mention the thousands of Widgets you donated to worthy, liberal backed, causes......Share the wealth with the "waiting for help" cases.....Set up a "minority", or "female", or "lazy do nothing for themselves" in one of your outlets........As soon as they find out how much work it is to operate a business of their own, they will sell to the first Korean to come along. Then hate the Korean because he will be very successful.......Due to PRIDE and HARD work, not greed.........You know, you just can't get American made widgets anymore...........The widget factories have all been TAXED into moving off shore........So who is going to support all the pork barrel spending now?............

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Well Alan, John could easily see your side of this story IF you were to mention the thousands of Widgets you donated to worthy, liberal backed, causes......Share the wealth with the "waiting for help" cases.....Set up a "minority", or "female", or "lazy do nothing for themselves" in one of your outlets........As soon as they find out how much work it is to operate a business of their own, they will sell to the first Korean to come along. Then hate the Korean because he will be very successful.......Due to PRIDE and HARD work, not greed.........You know, you just can't get American made widgets anymore...........The widget factories have all been TAXED into moving off shore........So who is going to support all the pork barrel spending now?............
Sorry Ray, you know as well as I do that it's greed and Govt control that have driven businesses away. BS, Liberal, pro consumer laws have made it next to impossible to operate a business in CA.
Gotta love those leaded widgets.
It's not greed.

[Schiada76]

Ultra, WB shelters his money. He pays thousands upon thousands of dollars to accountants and attornys to AVOID paying.

[Moneypitt]

Sorry Ray, you know as well as I do that it's greed and Govt control that have driven businesses away. BS, Liberal, pro consumer laws have made it next to impossible to operate a business in CA.
Gotta love those leaded widgets.
It's not greed.
Yeah, but it is the government greed that is murdering American businesses...Not the businessman's......Oh don't forget the MMGB crap when it comes to running businesses out of the country.......
Also, I think the 17% tax number was a combination of his corporate and HIS income, (salary) not "payroll" taxes paid on behalf of his employees..........

[058]

"Greed is good" [Gordon Gekko] Greed [gred] n. "A desire to aquire more than one needs or deserves" So if you make more than you need to provide for the nessessities of life then that makes you greedy according to the dictionary. Who determines what one deserves? If I work harder than my next door neighbor shouldn't I have more than him or do I need some government bureaucrat deciding how much I need to live on? [They are doing that now] Without greed there is no ambition. The desire to suceed is linked to greed. I see nothing wrong with this. What is so terrible about trying to hang on to money you earn? Is that being greedy? If so....so what.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

"Greed is good" [Gordon Gekko] Greed [gred] n. "A desire to aquire more than one needs or deserves" So if you make more than you need to provide for the nessessities of life then that makes you greedy according to the dictionary. Who determines what one deserves? If I work harder than my next door neighbor shouldn't I have more than him or do I need some government bureaucrat deciding how much I need to live on? [They are doing that now] Without greed there is no ambition. The desire to suceed is linked to greed. I see nothing wrong with this. What is so terrible about trying to hang on to money you earn? Is that being greedy? If so....so what.
The issue of greed was brought into this debate to refute another's comment that lowering taxes on the ultra rich will, result in lower prices and more jobs. I think this comment was absurd and overly simplistic
IMO, lower prices and the provision of more jobs will only be the result of more perceived profits. If pocketing a tax cut itself is viewed as the best way for the ultra rich to increase profit, lower prices and more jobs would not follow.
Considering that most people here are Conservatives, who believe in Capitalist system, I was surprised at the responses my comment drew. Profit, greed, money are what drives this Country. Call it the desire to succeed. Stating that cutting taxes to big business will cause lower prices and more jobs. IMO, is not necessarily the case.
The ultra rich being taxed at a lower rate than you and I, IMO, is improper.

[steelcomp]

If the "wealthy" could retain more of their earnings, they could provide more jobs, higher salaries for their employees, and lower costs for goods and services. That would increase the economy and the quality of life for all involved.
This is a good concept if it worked. What makes you think that these folks don't put as much as they possibly can in thier pockets? We don't agree as I view many of these types as drivin by greed.
If you'll look around, you'll see it does work. There's only one reason that the economy is as strong as it is despite the war, despite Katrina, despite 911, and despite the naysayers in the mainstream media, and that is that Bush's tax cuts have put more money in people's pockets. The reason these folks don't keep the extra money in their pockets as you say they do is because they can't help themselves but to go out and buy more useless stuff like big boats and expensive impractical cars. It's not really greed, it's more materialism and narcisism, seeking some kind of fulfillment in material posessions.
Also, it's pretty common knowledge that the "wealthy" in this country pay a much higher portion of the taxes as compared to the middle class and the less wealthy, who are actually more apt to pocket the money from a tax benefit than spend it, which is really the "smart" thing to do, but dosen't help the economy at all.

[steelcomp]

Just a reminder...the only people who "take" money involuntarily from anyone in this country is the government. It's tax laws are confiscatory, and illegal. Anyone who profits in this country (becomes rich, if you will) does so because someone agreed to give them money in exchange for something. Fair or not, it was voluntary.

[steelcomp]

IMO, lower prices and the provision of more jobs will only be the result of more perceived profits. If pocketing a tax cut itself is viewed as the best way for the ultra rich to increase profit, lower prices and more jobs would not follow.
Where do you think these profits come from? Why do you think the government's tax revenue intake is at record highs right now? You think people are being greedy? You increase people's taxes, and they're going to find every way on Sam's hill to not pay them. Give them a break, and they're going to be more willing to pay their fair share. The proof is in the numbers. You call it "simplistic" and it's exactly that. It's very simple. Something dosen't always have to be complicated and complex to be effective.