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Thread: Rising waters

  1. #31
    Old Texan
    Kurt,
    It's amazing how someone like you, who isn't a scientist by any means, has the balls to call way more qualified people that yourself idiots. I personally don't know what effect man is having in climate change, but after living in the Los Angeles area for over 50 years, and watching first hand the amount of shit that man has been pumped to the atmosphere, I believe that man could be having some affect. I'm not sure that we have the ability to change the current warming pattern, but do believe that we need to reduce the amount of shit we pump into the air. I see doing so as a win win.
    My gawd, we have a writer's strike going on so no new TV shows and now we have reruns on PRF topics.......
    Man didn't cause any of this stuff and man ain't gonna stop any of it, plain and simple.

  2. #32
    Old Texan
    Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with global warming being caused by man made causes etc. the fact appears to be that ice is melting at a pretty alarming rate by comparison to recent history and waters are rising. This presents some serious issues for mankind in general in the coming 50-100 years with the possible implication of large scale migration and possibly wars as people and whole countries strive to survive the floods of coastal areas. Our children and grandchildren could very well be dealing with these issues in their lifetimes.
    Your thoughts....?
    JAKARTA (Reuters) - Many of Indonesia's islands may be swallowed up by the sea if world leaders fail to find a way to halt rising sea levels at this week's climate change conference on the resort island of Bali.
    Doomsters take this dire warning by Indonesian scientists a step further and predict that by 2035, the Indonesian capital's airport will be flooded by sea water and rendered useless; and by 2080, the tide will be lapping at the steps of Jakarta's imposing Dutch-era Presidential palace which sits 10 km inland (about 6 miles).
    The Bali conference is aimed at finding a successor to the Kyoto Protocol, which expires in 2012, on cutting climate warming carbon emissions. With over 17,000 islands, many at risk of being washed away, Indonesians are anxious to see an agreement reached and quickly implemented that will keep rising seas at bay.
    Just last week, tides burst through sea walls, cutting a key road to Jakarta's international airport until officials were able to reinforce coastal barricades.
    "Island states are very vulnerable to sea level rise and very vulnerable to storms. Indonesia ... is particularly vulnerable," Nicholas Stern, author of an acclaimed report on climate change, said on a visit to Jakarta earlier this year.
    Even large islands are at risk as global warming might shrink their land mass, forcing coastal communities out of their homes and depriving millions of a livelihood.
    The island worst hit would be Java, which accounts for more than half of Indonesia's 226 million people. Here rising sea levels would swamp three of the island's biggest cities near the coast -- Jakarta, Surabaya and Semarang -- destroying industrial plants and infrastructure.
    "Tens of millions of people would have to move out of their homes. There is no way this will happen without conflict," Environment Minister Rachmat Witoelar said recently.
    "The cost would be very high. Imagine, it's not just about building better infrastructure, but we'd have to relocate people and change the way people live," added Witoelar, who has said that Indonesia could lose 2,000 of its islands by 2030 if sea levels continue to rise.
    CRUNCH TIME AT BALI
    Environmentalists say this week's climate change meeting in Bali will be crunch time for threatened coastlines and islands as delegates from nearly 190 countries meet to hammer out a new treaty on global warming.
    Several small island nations including Singapore, Fiji, Kiribati, Tuvalu and Caribbean countries have raised the alarm over rising sea levels which could wipe them off the map.
    The Maldives, a cluster of 1,200 islands renowned for its luxury resorts, has asked the international community to address climate change so it does not sink into a watery grave.
    According to a U.N. climate report, temperatures are likely to rise by between 1.1 and 6.4 degrees Celsius (2.0 and 11.5 degrees Fahrenheit) and sea levels by between 18 cm and 59 cm (seven and 23 inches) this century.
    Under current greenhouse gas emission levels, Indonesia could lose about 400,000 sq km of land mass by 2080, including about 10 percent of Papua, and 5 percent of both Java and Sumatra on the northern coastlines, Armi Susandi, a meteorologist at the Bandung Institute of Technology, told Reuters.
    Indonesia, the world's fourth-most populous country, has faced intense pressure over agricultural land for decades.
    Susandi, who has researched the impact of climate change on Indonesia, estimated sea levels would rise by an average of 0.5 cm a year until 2080, while the submersion rate in Jakarta, which lies just above sea level, would be higher at 0.87 cm a year.
    A study by the UK-based International Institute for Economy and Development (IIED) said at least 8 out of 92 of the outermost small islands that make up the country's borders are vulnerable.
    TOO MANY ISLANDS TO COUNT
    Less than half of Indonesia's islands are inhabited and many are not even named. Now, the authorities are hastily counting the coral-fringed islands that span a distance of 5,000 km, the equivalent of going from Ireland to Iran, before it is too late.
    Disappearing islands and coastlines would not only change the Indonesian map, but could also restrict access to mineral resources situated in the most vulnerable spots, Susandi said.
    He estimates that land loss alone would cost Indonesia 5 percent of its GDP without taking into account the loss of property and livelihood as millions migrate from low-lying coastlines to cities and towns on higher ground.
    There are 42 million people in Indonesia living in areas less than 10 meters above the average sea level, who could be acutely affected by rising sea levels, the IIED study showed.
    A separate study by the United Nations Environment Programme in 1992 showed in two districts in Java alone, rising waters could deprive more than 81,000 farmers of their rice fields or prawn and fish ponds, while 43,000 farm laborers would lose their job.
    One solution is to cover Indonesia's fragile beaches with mangroves, the first line of defense against sea level rise, which can break big waves and hold back soil and silt that damage coral reefs.
    A more expensive alternative is to erect multiple concrete walls on the coastlines, as the United States has done to break the tropical storms that hit its coast, Susandi said.
    Some areas, including the northern shores of Jakarta, are already fitted with concrete sea barriers, but they are often damaged or too low to block rising waters and big waves such as the ones that hit Jakarta in November.
    "It will be like permanent flooding," Susandi said. "By 2050, about 24 percent of Jakarta will disappear," possibly even forcing the capital to move to Bandung, a hill city 180 km east of Jakarta.
    Lots of theories. The world is everchanging and the most of the above is speculation. Living on the Gulf Coast the better part of the last 35 years, I've witnessed lots of changes in the coastal profile mainly from storms and currents. Also grew up around the Great lakes and have been told by many far older than me the Great Lakes cycle on water depths.
    Sounds like the island folks need to wake up like the Dutch did long ago and protect their lands from the water moving in. Funny how the primitive people stay primitive and the world blames their woes on everything but the real reasons.....:idea:

  3. #33
    ULTRA26 # 1
    Stranger still, NASA adopted a new technique in 2000 to calculate average annual temperatures. NASA essentially gave a 0.27 degrees Fahrenheit (0.15 degrees Centigrade) "bonus" to readings for the last seven years.
    However, Canadian statistical analyst Steve McIntyre of ClimateAudit.org caught NASA's mathematical mistake. After the space agency admitted and corrected its glitch, America's warmest year shifted from 1998 to 1934. Global-warming enthusiasts should clarify why America was hotter during the less-developed Great Depression, yet cooler in purportedly carbon-choked 1998.
    Warming??.........C'mon John. It is not warming. It isn't changing enough to make any difference at all. The ice caps are actully thicker than they have ever been, at least since scientific data has been gathered. In fact, the ice cores show MORE carbon centuries ago, than now. ......MP
    Ray I suugest you do a bit more research
    http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/sci...rror-bar_t.gif

  4. #34
    Moneypitt
    Ray I suugest you do a bit more research
    http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/sci...rror-bar_t.gif
    John, THAT IS THE DATA THAT IS FUC#@D UP!!!!!!!!!!! These morons have been making stupid mistakes for years. THE CORRECTED NUMBERS SHOW THAT GRAPH TO BE WRONG AND 1934 WAS WARMER THAN 1998 Research = data.......Bullshit data = Bull shit results....John, get a grip, you can't use algores bullshit that is based on bullshit and call it accurate. The data has been "misrepresented".............THEY LIED, John, THEY LIED

  5. #35
    ULTRA26 # 1
    John, THAT IS THE DATA THAT IS FUC#@D UP!!!!!!!!!!! These morons have been making stupid mistakes for years. THE CORRECTED NUMBERS SHOW THAT GRAPH TO BE WRONG AND 1934 WAS WARMER THAN 1998 Research = data.......Bullshit data = Bull shit results....John, get a grip, you can't use algores bullshit that is based on bullshit and call it accurate. The data has been "misrepresented".............THEY LIED, John, THEY LIED
    http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/m...007/08/gap.jpg
    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...level-numbers/
    http://www.igsoc.org/news/pressreleases/Zwally509.pdf
    http://www.aip.org/history/climate/floods.htm
    Arctic climate is now warming rapidly and much larger Arctic shrinkage changes are projected
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet
    You are misinformed Ray

  6. #36
    Moneypitt
    [QUOTE=ULTRA26 # 1;2927544
    You are misinformed Ray[/QUOTE]
    OK John, everyone that disagrees with algore is misinformed..........Ray

  7. #37
    ULTRA26 # 1
    OK John, everyone that disagrees with algore is misinformed..........Ray
    I don't agree or disagree with Al Gore. Al Gore's movement relates to man made GW and that is not what I am referring to.

  8. #38
    delemorte
    I want to know what we are going to do when that big star that we call the sun burns up?
    seeing hows thats a few billions years off.... i think we will have completely raped this planet by then and be long gone as a species

  9. #39
    ULTRA26 # 1
    seeing hows thats a few billions years off.... i think we will have completely raped this planet by then and be long gone as a species
    What so you mean? How could man do any damage to this great and giant planet?
    I hear this kind of sh*t all the time

  10. #40
    eliminatedsprinter
    What so you mean? How could man do any damage to this great and giant planet?
    I hear this kind of sh*t all the time
    Of course, the only way to prevent our planet's distruction is to have a bunch of non-productive, socialist, government hacks tell everyone how to do business (since you are having fun exaggerating, other people's positions I might as well join in )

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