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Thread: New Jet Design

  1. #21
    Wizard612
    BP- I can't agree more. I think I didn't explain my thoughts about capsules correctly. Capsules today are fitted into a complete hull and mounted in such a way that they break out of the hull when things are comming apart. I'm thinking that this capsule would still break away from the rest of the boat but when installed it completes the hull. If you remember the F-111 it had a crew ejection system that was the whole nose of the aircraft. Same idea here. The concept of the trap door like in the unlimiteds would be for escape in a roll over not violent enough to distroy the boat but trapping the driver in an inverted hull. Due to the CG moving forward in this design a roll over would not result in a bow up boat like we're all use to seeing but a flat bottom up attitude.
    I also agree on the droop issue just drew it that way in the computer model to finish off the pump in the way I was familiar.

  2. #22
    lilrick
    By far the most interesting jet talk in the history of HB.

  3. #23
    sstjet
    I do agree with a lot of these points. The capsule is a great idea for safety and if you run a tunnel on the ragged edge you should have a capsule. I was just stating that the added weight may not out weigh the benefit. I do disagree in the manuerverability issue however. A plane turns in every possible direction, a boat does not. I don't include crashing as a manuever. It is the result of an manuever. The ideas are good ideas and are in use on planes for a reason, however some of these planes travel in excess of
    1000mph. I think it would be cool if it could be applied without adding a lot of extra weight though, because it could eliminate a large portion of crashes. What about added cost?

  4. #24
    Wizard612
    Stability of any vehicale, plane, car or boat will greatly reduce the possibility of it getting into a catostrophic attitude. Jeff Bennet and I had sketches of a TFH back about 1980 that we hoped could be stable up to or through 300 MPH but no owner wanter to spend the kind of money needed to develop it. They would rather use it to develope HP in the engine. I have always wondered what if we did develope it how many lives it could have saved...
    Ive tried to estimate the weight penalty of just the adjustible canard and stern elevators. Assuming most surfaces are carbon, electric acuators, wiring and computer controls these two items should not weigh more than 75lbs. A good diet and some excersise and I can loose that in nine months. The bulk of the extra weight in this design in in the beam width. Materials and methods can bring this final weight number pretty close to current weights. Future weighting once these materials and methods are used in a standard design would be another matter. But stability is the main issue. Lets think about F-1 cars where a driver looses control crashes into a concrete barrier @ 200+ and walks away is a much better senario than seeing the death of a friend on the 11:00 o'clock news. Costs: I know the development of this technology can't be cheep but I'm hopeful that by using off the shelf parts and a well thought out testing program, then amortizing those costs over 100 or so boats will fall in line with other motor sports. but who knows the idea of this thead is to talk it out, thanks for the input.:idea:

  5. #25
    bp
    wizard, i think that trying to create an environment that would provide the same safety as an f-1 is a noble idea, but it would have to be proven technology in a water crash to be considered safe, and realistic testing for that purpose could get real expensive, especially when trying to proven over a lot of years and losses that came with it.
    if you look at today's capsule boats, the capsule is integrated with the rest of the skin. if you follow this link to randy krohn's site (hope i don't get in trouble with this) you can see that with glenn wilson's outrigger, the capsule appears to be integrated from an aerodynamic perspective. http://dragboats.com/gallery/picture...24485&RecID=14 this may not be exactly what you had in mind, but a cert'd capsule can be built that would work. i'm also more of a fan of hydraulic actuators instead of electronic, but that's just me... being water and all...
    sts, i understand your thoughts regarding planes. my only point is that, currently and for at least 3-4 decades, once a blowover commences, there is absolutely nothing that can be done by the driver/boat/anyone, to stop it. if these surfaces can be operated to affect the air pressures in such a way that blowover conditions can be controlled, to call that significant is an understatement.
    wizard, jeff talked to me about some of these concepts many years ago, when we were still working together on the biz. suffice to say, we went through some things that i (and i think jeff) don't ever want to again. this looks like a real good step in the right direction...

  6. #26
    Senior Member
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    Today's technology of composites, certainly opens the door to advances in boat design. The movable surfaces, can be manufactured strong, yet light, and the mechanisms equally as light. These items would not need to be crash worthy, but merely safety devices incorporated in the new designs. Hull and capsule design would be main goals for survivability, in the event of a catastrophic event. Who would have thunk computors would take us this far, let alone make it happen. I hope to see you development of these ideas and designs in the future, it's amazing design work, keep at it.

  7. #27
    HOSS
    If what I think you mean by an intake duct as a completely submerged duct under the keel rather than the traditional intake mounted to the keel it has the later. I don't know how you could engineer a duct type that would have enough reduction of drag at high speed let alone overload the thing after a certain speed. The traditional ramp type intake has the possibility to load it even when it is above the water line at speed reducing drag greatly. Back in the 70s we thought of how to design an intake that reduced down the entry area as speed increased (like the SR-71s intakes) but the engineering problems seemed too great at the time. To revisit those ideas now would be interesting
    Look into the Navy project with jets. I believe it was in the 70`s (late) at Textron down here. Drank a bunch of Bud so the brain cant remeber everything but really cool stuff.

  8. #28
    Wizard612
    bp- thanks for the input. The link to the photo is great. The interface between the deck and the capsule still looks to me like a complete separate capsule was put in the hull and the deck made to come up to it and match it at the edges. My thinking is close but differnt in one very different way. The bottom of the capsule is the bottom of the boat. I though, as I was looking at a capsule installation, that there was a redundant surface in that design. One capsule bottom and one boat bottom, both built quite strong and relatively heavy. The question then became how do I lighten the boat? answer, eliminate one of the two bottoms and let the capsule bottom take the load of the bottom of the boat.:idea:

  9. #29
    UBFJ #454
    My thinking is close but differnt in one very different way. The bottom of the capsule is the bottom of the boat. I though, as I was looking at a capsule installation, that there was a redundant surface in that design. One capsule bottom and one boat bottom, both built quite strong and relatively heavy. The question then became how do I lighten the boat? answer, eliminate one of the two bottoms and let the capsule bottom take the load of the bottom of the boat.
    The way a SFI Certified Capsule has to be constructed (in particular, the way the Required Crash Cage Tubular Frame is constructed with its bottom cross bracing) and the way the rigid seat has to be attached to the frame excludes any bottom escape door. Additionally, any weight savings would be under 12 lbs., if modern composites were used.

  10. #30
    Jet Hydro
    i already have that boat with out all the lid and BS
    http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data...040404-med.JPG

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