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Thread: edelbrock victor BBF question...

  1. #1
    Riverat84
    at jegs.com, they say that the victor intake will NOT fit the '88-up production heads...i have the d3ve ones, how do i find out what year they are?
    also, it said it will require 'port matching' to fit the stock iron heads. is that what i have? and if so, how hard and what is 'port matching'? thank you,
    Reid

  2. #2
    Jetaholic
    Can't answer the question about Ford, but port matching is where they grind on the intake manifold port exits that mate to the head to make them exactly the same size as the port entrances on the head itself. Edelbrock makes the manifold with extra aluminum around the port holes to give you enough to grind off to accomplish this. Typically they use an intake gasket as the template and they grind on both the head and the manifold to make the port holes match the holes in the gasket, which makes the port holes the exact same size so that they'll mate together without having a "lip". This creates a smoother transition from the intake manifold to the cylinder head, which improves airflow into the cylinder.

  3. #3
    steelcomp
    D3='73. I wouldn't worry about port matching stock heads. I believe the Victor intake has CJ sized ports , which are much larger than the stock iron heads. Opening up the stock heads to match would be of no benefit.

  4. #4
    Squirtin Thunder
    As cast the Victor 460 is closer to the stock C8,C9 & D0 intake port than it is the cj port at least on the ones I have seen. Remember the marine 460s came with cj intakes even on unmatched D3 heads and they were reportedly worth 15hp over the stock '73 4V intake. Major port mis-match ! The D3 intake port is a little smaller than the C8,C9 & D0 intake port.

  5. #5
    LakesOnly
    they say that the victor intake will NOT fit the '88-up production heads...i have the d3ve ones, how do i find out what year they are?The reason that this intake will not fit 1988-up cylinder heads is because 1988 is the first year of the fuel injected 460, and they use completely incompatible cylinder heads due to their different port shapes (both the intake and exhaust ports). Bolt pattern is the same (int & exh), however ports will not line up anywhere near correctly. 1988 FI head is the E7TE; the later FI 460 head was the F3TE head.
    Your D3VE cylinder heads are from the carburetted era. D3VE's were used from 1973-1985. Therefore the Victor 460 intake will bolt up just fine, and will actually bolt up to C8VE, C9VE, D0VE, D0OE, D1VE, D2VE, D2OE, D3VE, and E6TE cylinder heads.
    Also, it said it will require 'port matching' to fit the stock iron heads. is that what i have? and if so, how hard and what is 'port matching'? thank you, This is where it gets interesting; read carefully.
    First of all, you do not need to port match the intake runners and you may run the intake manifold straight out of the box, as cast.
    The Victor 460 ships with passenger car-sized port runners, however they are on CJ/SCJ port centers. Bolt pattern is okay, but runner alignment on the passenger car heads is a little bit off (about 1/4-inch) when this intake is bolted to the standard issue passenger car cylinder heads. So again, the port size is correct, but the port alignment is not perfect. Conversely, this intake will align with the port centers on the D0OE CJ/SCJ head perfectly, but in this case the Victor port runners are still passenger car size and not CJ port size, so the intake needs to have it's intake runners enlarged to SCJ-size when used with these heads (or any aftermarket alumunum head that has the SCJ-sized ports).
    Sound crazy? It's not, really. Edelbrock killed two birds with one stone, so to speak. Fact is that if you use this intake on a passenger car head, you DO NOT need to port the intake runners* (<---more on this later) as recommended. On the other hand, if you will be using the intake with SCJ port sized heads, then it is presumed that if you are building a large port engine then you are likely the type that can handle custom engine building and port the intake runners as needed.
    Soooo...back to your D3VE-headed engine. Must you portmatch the inake runners? NO. I don't care what the website is suggesting. As fas as I'm concerned, that suggestion is little more than a liability statement, as in, "hey man, we told you the port runners don't match up perfectly."
    Nor do they have to. Unless you are trying to find every last hp, then you might want to do some port matching, but not on the intake manifold runners* (<---remember, more on this later!). On a little ol' 460, you might find 7-8 hp at 7000 rpm...and that's it, because the Victor 460's runners work very, very effectively.
    Basically, the port runners are not where the Victor 460 needs attention or can benefit from handiwork. Although they are a fine intake as cast, there is more power to be had from reworking the intake plenum. Doing so can result in over a 20hp gain in the same 7000 rpm scenario as mentioned above.
    Okay, so back to "port matching" between this intake and the passenger car heads:
    * If you insist on port matching, then only port match the cylinder head ports only and do not touch the Victor 460's intake manifold runner exits. Why? Remember that the Victor's runners are offset sideways by about 1/4-inch or so (depending on the specific runner in question), and so if you widen one wall of the cylinder head port (to match the intake's runner wall on that same side) and then grind the opposing wall of the intake runner (to match the head's port wall on the opposite side), you will have bellmouthed the transition and killed runner velocity. Therefore, the best way to "port match" the Victor/passenger car head transition is by only blending the side of the cylinder head's intake port that the air/fuel will ram into while entering the cylinder head's intake port. There is no need to grind the side of the intake manifolds runner(s) that are already "inside" the head's intake runner, as that fuel will transition into the head just fine. Performing this modification requires the creation of special, dedicated patterns that allow the fabricator to trace the Victor's port overlap onto the passenger car heads intake flange so that areas to grind can be established.
    I think port matching is a waste of time in yor case, and that the as-cast D3VE heads are the biggest restriction in your fuel delivery and therefore need the most attention...any intake work will not be realized unless work on the heads is first performed.
    LO

  6. #6
    steelcomp
    Good info Lakes...I had forgotten about the port layout differences, but you're right. AFA port matching......only blending the side of the cylinder head's intake port that the air/fuel will ram into while entering the cylinder head's intake port. ...this is what I was basically getting at...there really is no air/fuel ramming into the side of the intake port. The air will stack up against that surface creating a boundry layer and the flow is far less turbulent or restricted than worth the time and effort to do any port blending. I doubt you'd see anything on the dyno at any level. Same thing with the 351C 4V intake on 2V heads. Big improvement, but not worth port matching the heads. Just another bit of info on port mismatch. It's sometimes beneficial (some have done it intentionally) when an intake's runners are slightly smaller than the port opening. This can help in fighting reversion with large overlap cams.

  7. #7
    Riverat84
    The reason that this intake will not fit 1988-up cylinder heads is because 1988 is the first year of the fuel injected 460, and they use completely incompatible cylinder heads due to their different port shapes (both the intake and exhaust ports). Bolt pattern is the same (int & exh), however ports will not line up anywhere near correctly. 1988 FI head is the E7TE; the later FI 460 head was the F3TE head.
    Your D3VE cylinder heads are from the carburetted era. D3VE's were used from 1973-1985. Therefore the Victor 460 intake will bolt up just fine, and will actually bolt up to C8VE, C9VE, D0VE, D0OE, D1VE, D2VE, D2OE, D3VE, and E6TE cylinder heads.
    This is where it gets interesting; read carefully.
    First of all, you do not need to port match the intake runners and you may run the intake manifold straight out of the box, as cast.
    The Victor 460 ships with passenger car-sized port runners, however they are on CJ/SCJ port centers. Bolt pattern is okay, but runner alignment on the passenger car heads is a little bit off (about 1/4-inch) when this intake is bolted to the standard issue passenger car cylinder heads. So again, the port size is correct, but the port alignment is not perfect. Conversely, this intake will align with the port centers on the D0OE CJ/SCJ head perfectly, but in this case the Victor port runners are still passenger car size and not CJ port size, so the intake needs to have it's intake runners enlarged to SCJ-size when used with these heads (or any aftermarket alumunum head that has the SCJ-sized ports).
    Sound crazy? It's not, really. Edelbrock killed two birds with one stone, so to speak. Fact is that if you use this intake on a passenger car head, you DO NOT need to port the intake runners* (<---more on this later) as recommended. On the other hand, if you will be using the intake with SCJ port sized heads, then it is presumed that if you are building a large port engine then you are likely the type that can handle custom engine building and port the intake runners as needed.
    Soooo...back to your D3VE-headed engine. Must you portmatch the inake runners? NO. I don't care what the website is suggesting. As fas as I'm concerned, that suggestion is little more than a liability statement, as in, "hey man, we told you the port runners don't match up perfectly."
    Nor do they have to. Unless you are trying to find every last hp, then you might want to do some port matching, but not on the intake manifold runners* (<---remember, more on this later!). On a little ol' 460, you might find 7-8 hp at 7000 rpm...and that's it, because the Victor 460's runners work very, very effectively.
    Basically, the port runners are not where the Victor 460 needs attention or can benefit from handiwork. Although they are a fine intake as cast, there is more power to be had from reworking the intake plenum. Doing so can result in over a 20hp gain in the same 7000 rpm scenario as mentioned above.
    Okay, so back to "port matching" between this intake and the passenger car heads:
    * If you insist on port matching, then only port match the cylinder head ports only and do not touch the Victor 460's intake manifold runner exits. Why? Remember that the Victor's runners are offset sideways by about 1/4-inch or so (depending on the specific runner in question), and so if you widen one wall of the cylinder head port (to match the intake's runner wall on that same side) and then grind the opposing wall of the intake runner (to match the head's port wall on the opposite side), you will have bellmouthed the transition and killed runner velocity. Therefore, the best way to "port match" the Victor/passenger car head transition is by only blending the side of the cylinder head's intake port that the air/fuel will ram into while entering the cylinder head's intake port. There is no need to grind the side of the intake manifolds runner(s) that are already "inside" the head's intake runner, as that fuel will transition into the head just fine. Performing this modification requires the creation of special, dedicated patterns that allow the fabricator to trace the Victor's port overlap onto the passenger car heads intake flange so that areas to grind can be established.
    I think port matching is a waste of time in yor case, and that the as-cast D3VE heads are the biggest restriction in your fuel delivery and therefore need the most attention...any intake work will not be realized unless work on the heads is first performed.
    LO
    lakes, thanx ALOT for the information! much more than i was asking for...im actually gonna lose some hp, because im downsizing from an offy TR...dont ask why...im just switching to a single carb setup...so im glad i wont have to do anything major at least...i bought another offy TR, but got it powdercoated the wrong color. i still might use it, but wanted to know, since i have the oppurtunity next week to get a clean ass victor for 100 bones. thanx for the info buddy!
    Reid

  8. #8
    LakesOnly
    Good info Lakes...I had forgotten about the port layout differences, but you're right. AFA port matching.........the air will stack up against that surface creating a boundry layer and the flow is far less turbulent or restricted than worth the time and effort to do any port blending.OT, but incidentally there are some bumps and obstructions in the 460 iron exhaust ports that are better left untouched and not smoothed over for the same reason.
    Fluid dynamics is an intersting thing.
    LO

  9. #9
    mirrorimage
    hey lakes what can you tell me about dooe-r heads.... i heard they were the best casted iron head for the ford preformance wise???????

  10. #10
    LakesOnly
    hey lakes what can you tell me about dooe-r heads.... i heard they were the best casted iron head for the ford preformance wise???????Of all the 429/460 iron wedge heads released for production, the D0OE-R offers the potential to support the greatest amount of power. They have the biggest ports, the biggest valves, the smallest combustion chambers, etc.
    Of course, this alone does not make them the "best" head. There is no "best" head, only the most appropriate head for a given build; it's all about the engine package/combination. For most 460 lake boat builds for example, we have repeatedly shown that the D0VE head usually the better choice for the common performance-upgraded 460 than the D0OE-R head. A 521 stroker, on the other hand, might be a different story. Which head you select depends on what you are building...just like the cam profile, compression ratio, induction, etc.
    LO

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