Reply With QuoteBoy, how can a Supreme Court Justice sleep at night, knowing he has lost the 'trust and confidence' of the esteemed AZDon.wink
GWB still had 530 more votes than Algore
Boy, how can a Supreme Court Justice sleep at night, knowing he has lost the 'trust and confidence' of the esteemed AZDon.
CA Stu:
Electoral college says Bush won. That is the result of our election. Like it or not, that's the fact. So how about we do the Republican thing: have a big government investigation along with a witch hunt that includes hiring a "special prosecutor" after spending tens of millions of dollars, we'll dip the guy Impeach ice cream and then we'll hold a $40 million dollar recall election, because the voters were too stupid to vote the election properly!
That Florida's Electoral votes were awarded to Bush was simply the Supreme Court mooning the voters of this country. Whoever says that influence peddling can't buy a politician the office he seeks learned nothing from the counterfeit results of 2000!
P.S. 530 votes?1 is that all? I've talked to several black folks from florida that claim that thousands were denied their ballots on election day! How do you think they would have voted?
[ August 11, 2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: AzDon ]
058:
GWB still had 530 more votes than Algore
Don, I don't know what story you read about the election but those ain't the facts.
News organizations paid for a full recount, and by several methods of counting Bush won.
"Dimpled chads" my ass. I have been voting with puchcard ballots in Texas for over twenty years, and all I can say is that if you are too ****ing stupid to push a pin through paper then stay home.
Same thing with "overvotes" and "undervotes". Your vote is serious business, and the election workers can answer any and all questions.
And don't even start about the "70,000 disenfranchised black voters". That's a lot of steaming shit shoveled by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.
This little factual moment was brought to you by:
rrrr<----------radical right wing asshole
MIAMI Associated Press -
A newspaper review of Florida's "undervote" ballots concludes
that President Bush would almost certainly still have won the state had the
U.S. Supreme Court allowed a hand recount to be completed.
The Miami Herald and USA Today reported in Wednesday's editions that Bush
would have expanded his 537-vote victory to a 1,665 margin if the recount
ordered by the Florida Supreme Court had gone ahead under the most inclusive
standards, where even partial punches and dimples are counted as votes.
When the process was stopped, recounts using a variety of standards had
already had been completed in seven counties - Palm Beach, Volusia, Broward,
Hamilton, Manatee, Escambia and Madison - and in 139 Miami-Dade County
precincts.
The newspapers' calculations were based on the assumption that those numbers
would stand, but that in all the rest of the state the most generous
standards would be applied. On that theory, Bush's margin would have
increased, the newspapers said.
But the Herald reported that the balance would have tipped to Gore if a
recount of the undervotes had been started from scratch in all 67 Florida
counties using the most inclusive standards. Under that hypothetical recount,
free from the fragmented chronology of the post-election contest, Gore would
have won the White House, the paper found, but with an even narrower margin
of victory than Bush - only 393 votes.
An undervote is a ballot on which no preference for president registered; an
overvote is a ballot on which more than one preference registered.
USA Today's analysis focused exclusively on what might have happened if the
recount had been allowed to continue.
The results bucked the expectations of both the Democratic and Republican
teams during the Florida recount contest, finding that the more inclusive
recount standards sought by Gore would have helped Bush. And the strictest
standard sought by Republicans - that only clean ballot punches be counted -
would have given Gore an extremely narrow three-vote victory. USA Today said
that was too close to withstand the possibility of errors.
``Many Americans were asking the question 'What would the result be if the
Florida Supreme Court's order to conduct hand recounts in all 67 counties
were carried out?''' Martin Baron, the Herald's executive editor, said
Tuesday. ``We felt it was our responsibility to answer questions that so many
people had.''
The review of 61,190 undervotes did not examine so-called overvotes,
approximately 110,000 ballots cast for more than one candidate. Both papers
are planning a separate analysis of the overvote next month.
A group consisting of The Associated Press, The New York Times, The
Washington Post, CNN, The Palm Beach Post, St. Petersburg Times, The Wall
Street Journal and Tribune Publishing, which owns the Orlando Sentinel and
the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, is analyzing all uncounted presidential
ballots cast in the Florida election, including overvotes.
That ballot review, which is being conducted by the Chicago-based National
Opinion Research Center, is expected to be released next month.
The Florida Supreme Court order to conduct the hand counts specified only
undervotes should be counted. However, the U.S. Supreme Court decision
halting the recount noted that overvotes were being excluded.
Gore supporters were quick to interpret the newspaper findings as evidence
that the vice president should have won the election - and thus Florida' 25
electoral votes and the presidency.
``What this shows is that if you count the voter's intent, Gore wins. If you
look for excuses not to count votes, Bush does better,'' said Doug Hattaway,
Gore's national campaign spokesman, now working as a Democratic consultant in
Boston.
But White House spokesman Ken Lisaius said the 537-vote victory is the
correct tally.
``The law of the land are those rules that were in place on Election Day.
Using that standard, President Bush won on Election Day,'' he said.
While media reviews of the election are interesting, they do not answer the
question of what constitutes a vote, said Philip Zelikow of the Miller Center
of Public Affairs at the University of Virginia, who is helping craft a
federal commission on election reform.
``The problem the Supreme Court found was that there was no consistent
standard and no time to devise and fully apply one. So newspapers are now
answering the 'What if?' questions without having to settle any of the
problems the Supreme Court confronted,'' he said.
The analysis found that, regardless of the undervote reviews, only one thing
is truly clear: Precise numbers released on election night mask a world of
imprecision and chaos.
The Herald and USA Today said only eight Florida counties were able to
produce for inspection the exact number of undercount ballots they reported
on election night.
And the Herald noted that mistakes occurred both in machine and hand counts.
It said Pasco County had acknowledged that multiple machine recounts produced
a different number of undervotes - 1,776 on Nov. 8, 1,712 on Dec. 9 and 1,744
on Feb 5. And Duval County, which reported 4,967 undervotes on election
night, ended up delivering 5,106 such ballots for inspection by the Herald
after a hand recount.
The Herald and USA Today hired the national accounting firm BDO Seidman to
conduct the review. At least two people - a reporter and a BDO Seidman
auditor - looked at each undervote and recorded what they saw, including
dimples, pinpricks and hanging chads on punch-card ballots and all
discernible markings on optical scan ballots.
The reporter and the auditor did not discuss findings or share notes.
BDO then entered the results into a computer database and tabulated the
different markings for each candidate. The Herald tabulated reporters'
findings to look for statistical variations, but said it did not use those
counts in its analysis.
``We wanted an organization that would be viewed as impartial and that would
be professional and careful and deliberate and accurate,'' Baron said.
The study cost more than $500,000 and employed 27 accountants, in addition to
reporters from several newspapers.
[ August 11, 2003, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: rrrr ]
Don, N:ck, Catmandoody - it's time you guys learned a new trick - that Republican/Bush-bashing, anti-American drivel needs a vacation as do the rest of us fiscal conservatives. I'm glad you work to feed the illegals and those who don't want to work but when you reach into my wallet I'm going to break your friggin' hands
A black guy goes to the poll with his white wife and he's denied while she votes. I spoke with a guy that this happened to. Were Florida citizens whose registrations were "misplaced" on election day offerred the chance to vote in the days after the election? Hell No! What your post about post-election analysis indicates is that Florida was a statistical deadlock which should have excluded their electoral votes from the tally...Gore wins! Or how about splitting them and even giving Bush the odd vote...Gore still wins! The will of the people was...Gore wins...Get it??
[ August 11, 2003, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: BigBoyToys ]
Yeah, and I've talked to people who have seen Elvis at Krispy Kreme, does'nt mean it happened. Gore LOST, deal with it and move on. Try to get a better candidate next time, although from what I've seen of your offerings thus far, I think you'll lose again.
MagicMtnDan:
[b]Don, N:ck, Catmandoody - it's time you guys learned a new trick - that Republican/Bush-bashing, anti-American drivel needs a vacation as do the rest of us fiscal conservatives. I'm glad you work to feed the illegals and those who don't want to work but when you reach into my wallet I'm going to break your friggin' hands.jpg[/IMG] I'm a fiscal conservative, I know what the policies of a fiscal conservative would look like, and any of you that claim Bush is a fiscal conservative are exhibiting blind allegiance to a deficit-spending madman! He's giving away the store to his megabucks political supporters at the expense of the middle-class taxpayer and programs that benefit people. If you are in the top 10% that's getting 95% of the tax cut, I'm sorry, but I DO feel that your share of the American Dream should cost you a little more! For the rest of you, I'd suggest you wake up and see that those at the top of your party consider you as nothing more than a commodity on election day. The rest of the time, you are on your own!
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