Reply With Quotesounds like something they politicians would do in california.i heard they dont give government workers m.l.king's birthday off in az-is that true?i hope az isnt swinging to the left like ca is already.if so you will have smog devices on boats soon.
seems the aclu thinks the quotes of psalms 68:4, 66:4, and 104:24 are unconstituional. they were removed from the plaques the three most popular view points at the south rim of the grand canyon. what a crock of ........what is this country coming to?
sounds like something they politicians would do in california.i heard they dont give government workers m.l.king's birthday off in az-is that true?i hope az isnt swinging to the left like ca is already.if so you will have smog devices on boats soon.
well, the more californians MOVE to AZ, the more left AZ is becoming. HOWEVER, as a conservative & a Catholoc, it baffles me that we would WANT religious references being tied to government. The idea of being a conservative is wanting as little government in our lives as possible. We are a democracy, and beleive in freedom of religion. Say 100 years down the road there are more Muslims living in the US than Christians, do you want to see verses from the Kuran at the Grand Canyon? I will never be able to figure out how as conservatives we want the Government to take on a limited role in our lives, yet want it to regulate issues like religion and abortion. These are private issues that should not have big brother sponsership. This is not to say we should not have personal opinions of them, and not to say we shouldn't try to evangelize (I use that word in its secular meaning) others to our opinions, but I for one do not trust government enough to handle such issues...especially when they can't even run amtrac! And another, even scarier thought...what happens if there is another Clinton in the white house...do you want HER to be your moral compass?
well, the more californians MOVE to AZ, the more left AZ is becoming. Unless you got a boat or love the water...DONT!
Terrible Buddhist:
well, the more californians MOVE to AZ, the more left AZ is becoming. HOWEVER, as a conservative & a Catholoc, it baffles me that we would WANT religious references being tied to government. The idea of being a conservative is wanting as little government in our lives as possible. We are a democracy, and beleive in freedom of religion. Say 100 years down the road there are more Muslims living in the US than Christians, do you want to see verses from the Kuran at the Grand Canyon? I will never be able to figure out how as conservatives we want the Government to take on a limited role in our lives, yet want it to regulate issues like religion and abortion. These are private issues that should not have big brother sponsership. This is not to say we should not have personal opinions of them, and not to say we shouldn't try to evangelize (I use that word in its secular meaning) others to our opinions, but I for one do not trust government enough to handle such issues...especially when they can't even run amtrac! And another, even scarier thought...what happens if there is another Clinton in the white house...do you want HER to be your moral compass? As a Liberal Atheist, I agree with this post(except for the Clinton reference). You can put all the ten commandments and Christian torture symbols(crosses) you want on your own private land/property. They DO NOT BELONG ON PUBLIC LANDS.
future boater:
seems the aclu thinks the quotes of psalms 68:4, 66:4, and 104:24 are unconstituional. they were removed from the plaques the three most popular view points at the south rim of the grand canyon. what a crock of ........what is this country coming to? FROM THE AZ REPUBLIC
Thanking heaven for godless Canyon
E.J.
Montini
Republic
columnist
Jul. 15, 2003 12:00 AM
Like you, I saw the front-page article in Monday's Arizona Republic describing how plaques with Bible verses on them were being removed from the Grand Canyon, and I thought to myself, "Thank God."
Like you, I switched on the radio while driving to work and heard local talk-show hosts furiously discussing the plaques and their impact on the separation of church and state, and I thought to myself, "Hallelujah."
Then I got into the office and a number of you had left messages on my answering machine or sent e-mails stating without qualification that a guy with my job had a professional obligation to write something about this outlandish controversy. And I thought to myself, "Amen."
I pushed my chair away from my desk, got down on my knees and (after some frightful under-the-desk revelations involving long lost snack food) thanked the Man Upstairs for answering the prayers of people everywhere.
Apparently, we are no longer losing a soldier a day in Iraq, because if brave, young Americans still were being killed in what so many of us consider to be a godforsaken country, then surely we wouldn't have time to obsess about a few plaques that even those of us who have actually been to the Grand Canyon didn't know existed.
Sometime overnight, the Big Fella must have cleared up that whole Arab-Israeli situation, too. And folks in Afghanistan evidently aren't fighting one another anymore or trying to kill American men and woman. And I guess we've got nothing to worry about over in Liberia or any other country.
And no problems at home, it seems. While the rest of us slept, the Head Honcho must have cleared up any lingering issues we have had with affirmative action, discrimination or immigration. If not, the folks at the Arizona Civil Liberties Union would not have had time to send letters of concern to the National Park Service complaining about the plaques.
Similarly, the Almighty must have cleared up any messy situation going on with federal land use, timber sales, commercialization, pollution or preservation of the nation's most precious natural resources. If not, the Park Service wouldn't have had the time to answer some cockamamie correspondence about Bible verses.
It must be the Lord Himself who blew out the forest fires. We just haven't noticed yet. That's got to be it because no intelligent, concerned individual in this state would waste time complaining about the fact that rock formations named after Hindu gods would not be changed when the beautiful area in which we live is going up in flames and dying of thirst from a multiyear drought.
I feel really bad about this. People are always telling journalists that we don't pay enough attention to the good news. Clearly that is true. If it were not the case, we'd have noticed that the Supreme Being took a few moments to rid us of all crime, poverty, illness and cruelty. He must have. If there were actual problems in this world, would the Evangelical Sisterhood of Mary, the pious order of nuns who mounted the plaques, take the time to issue a statement saying that they were "stunned"?
Then again, the TV sets in the newsroom Monday showed scenes of forest fires. They showed soldiers taking cover in Iraq. This, while some people argued about plaques, as if such things are needed to inspire those seeing the Grand Canyon. Still, I knelt down and thanked the Lord. I had to. It turns out that it wasn't the prayers of the pious that God had answered, but those of talk-show hosts and newspaper columnists.
so which God exactly answered those prayers...Jesus, RA, Allah, Zeus? Oh, I know...ask the government, they will tell you.
The other side of that argument...we should focus on more important things right now (as if there are many more important things than our freedoms) is short sighted at best. It humors me to no end when people come on the news and say idiotic garbage like...we can't be looking for Bin Laden AND fight Saddam at the same time! I am guessing those people either 1) have no concept of our armed forces or 2) Can't walk and chew gum at the same time...it could be both.
Oh...as to MLK day, if I remember correctly (I moved a couple years ago), people get MLK day off, but lost Presidents day...which to me is a travesty. The reason WHY they even have MLK day though was because the NFL Black players said they would boycott coming to Arizona for the superbowl if Arizona did not declare MLK day a holiday. And in the hipocracy files, the same black leadership that fought so hard to have the man who pushed for equality among the races, now applaud the Supreme Court's decision to allow affirmative action to continue. Why is this decision so offensive? Because either races are equal or they are not. I prefer to think we are. So, how about this: Racism is racism, no matter what race it is being practiced against. We are all entitled to equal opportunity and should be judged on the merit of our own abilities and work...that is after all the capitalist way, and while my paycheck says I live in a socialist society, my voters registration card says differently.
I'm a Christian; that's why my name is hes4u. Do I think there's a problem with having verses in public? Yes and no. I do respect others feeling because that's what our great country was founded on. But if some one wants to climb a cliff along the Colorado river and risk his or her life and write a verse, or anything else thats pretty much O.K. with me. As long as its clean for the kids!
One thing that I can tell you is that our great fore-fathers who found this country and wrote the Declaration of Independence in 1776 had great faith in God. They even made statements that for a document of such perfections was not written by man alone.
I also thank our fore-fathers for reconizing Liberal Atheist like Catmando, and giving him the freedom to speak with freewill and to go to hell if he so choses. I personnaly chose HEAVEN.
And for the torture symbol, that God Jesus did for me and you. I think it was more painfull to carry all our sins to the cross than to die on it.
Thanks God for all the great boating that you give us in this great country.
I'm mostly a libertarian and I think MLK's day is a fine holiday. However, if it were up to me, Frederick Douglass would have been the first black American to have his own holiday. He actually came from slavery and accomplished at least as much (probably more) in a much more difficult era.
[ July 15, 2003, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]
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