Reply With QuoteFlashwave- are you guys selling your boat? Is a new boat on the way?
Innovation marine was selected by GM to Marinize the 496 platform to run in APAB Offshore. The engine was allowed run in the Super V, Super V Light and Factory 1&2. It dynoed at 555 HP. Mercury's 525 dynos at 555 HP (on the dyno, not the prop shaft). The HP and torque of the Vortec and Merc virtually match throughout the RPM range. We saw some competitive racing. Some very cool things came out of the offshore testing program making the 496 very durable in an environment were engines not only go forward and backward, but up and down and sideways with incredible G loads.
The difference between the 2 engines is the platform. The Merc 525 is based on a GM 502 block and the 8100/HP3 is based on the 496 block you find in their trucks today. GM is using APBA to prove the durability of their truck engines in the extreme environment of offshore racing. They are using this to market and sell more trucks.
Mercury also uses the 496 platform in the 496 HO. Mercury Racing, the makers of the HP500 and 525 however have not moved to the more modern platform.
Don't look for GM to marinze engines and compete against Mercury. Mercury is a sizable account to GM Powertrain. I would expect to see independent engine builders adopt the 496 block and build some engines. Its durability has been proven in offshore racing.
Flashwave- are you guys selling your boat? Is a new boat on the way?
This is a great topic and since I don't have years of experience or knowledge, I'll ask a few dumb questions if you all don't mind:
* Why doesn't there seem to be any competition in terms of engines and drive packages from the custom boat builders? It seems like Mercruiser is the only option.
* Since there are obviously other engine and driver alternatives available in the marketplace, why don't one or more of those manufacturers hook up with some boat builders and offer engine/drive packages for less giving us boat buyers more value and bang-for-the-buck?
* For what a 496HO and drive costs, what engine/drive combo can I get from another manufacturer that will deliver similar results for less money (when I say less money I mean less money for the package INSTALLED by the custom boat maker)? How much money will it cost to get an installed engine/drive package that is more powerful than the 496HO?
It seems like there aren't many boat makers offering alternatives to Mercruiser - if that's the case (is it?) new boat buyers should have non-Merc engine/drive options available to them.
I'm guessing that if the custom boat makers start offering other than Merc packages, Mercruiser might/could pull their products from the boat makers - right?
I've been told I could get an engine/drive package on my own and have the boat maker install it (or maybe it was pay the boat maker to buy the engine/drive combo) - the issue as I see it is that this doesn't seem to be a very simple thing to do and I think it should be as easy as checking off a box on the order sheet for the XXX motor and XXX drive (XXX = fill in the manufacturer's names).
I'll take a stab at a couple of 'em:
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
Why doesn't there seem to be any competition in terms of engines and drive packages from the custom boat builders? It seems like Mercruiser is the only option.
Actually, no. However, a boatbuilder can steer a customer in many directions.
Some builders offer "in-house" packages, because there is profit to be made on engines. However, that could be a headache come warranty time- I mean, if your builder is in Havasu, but your boat breaks in Newport Beach, who ya gonna call?
There are also "other builders" (such as Teague), but a builder will need to work with them, and be familiar with installing the product, and the performance expectations.
Mercury is usually a "turn-key" answer to builders, because of the extensive dealer network, and most builders are familiar with thier packages.
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
Since there are obviously other engine and driver alternatives available in the marketplace, why don't one or more of those manufacturers hook up with some boat builders and offer engine/drive packages for less giving us boat buyers more value and bang-for-the-buck?
There is. For example, Phaff and Hallet have been together for years. However, if the customer wants a Merc, they can do that, too.
Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
For what a 496HO and drive costs, what engine/drive combo can I get from another manufacturer that will deliver similar results for less money (when I say less money I mean less money for the package INSTALLED by the custom boat maker)? How much money will it cost to get an installed engine/drive package that is more powerful than the 496HO?
Like I stated in an earlier post, Hot Boat did a test on a Hallet with a Phaff/Imco and Merc/Merc package comparison. The Phaff/Imco was cheaper and faster, I believe.
I would imagine the same holds true for Teague. He makes a 620 for about the same price of the Merc 525.
Once again, Merc has a dealer network going for it...it may come in handy if you need warranty work on vacation.
So the thought is that GM is merely using offshore racing to prove the durability of their 496 with no intention of commercial placement in marine applications. Isn't that freakin' swell..... We all would benifit significantly from a little healthy competition here...... and it's overdue.....Interesting balancing act their attempting by being in the marine game but implying that they have no intention of further commercial development of said products....I wonder how profitable that market is?...if they charge anywhere near Merc's prices......they could make a killing by bypassing Merc and selling direct to the public......Hum....
I have been in a 34' deep V that had a pair of the hp3 motors in them and I would say that they are equivalent to the 500hp engines. I believe that Pro Boat out in Riverside is offering them currently, but I am not sure. I recall hearing that somewhere.
As for the V-10 motors, I am not a big fan. I know a lot of engine builders that will build you a 600-700hp motor for less than a 500 h.p. V-10. All you are really paying for is the novelty of the v-10.
have you guys seen the APBA races on speed channel? They are marketing (almost to the point of shamelessness) the hell out of GM trucks/vortec motors, with commercials, commentary from the racers, sponsorship, etc. etc.
I agree with you guys about getting more motor aftermarket for less money. But like HH said if there is no dealer network that is a big turnoff for a lot of people when it comes time for service.
It seems that GM has more to gain with a relationship with Merc than working against them because Merc already has an established distribution network. GM doesn't have to do any marketing and Merc sells and services all the motors. Remember marketing ain't cheap!
My question is, where is Ford and Dodge here?
If Ford got into the game would we be hearing form the Chevy guys..........."Found on the ramp dead"............."Found on the river drowned"......etc?? Also, best I could tell, most of the hp3's had outdrives. I'm not clear whose they were using or where the problem lies here?????
If you want to take a look at the HP3 go to WWW.gmpowertrain.com under specialty engines they show all of the base engines available from them.
I agree with HH's post....
I will also add the additional warranty you can buy on the Merc stuff.
I bought an additional 4 years to go along with the one year I received when I purchased our boat. I just broke a drive, and the warranty paid Teague over 5k to fix it. I still have over 3 years left on the extended warranty, which is nice.
IMO it depends on what you want. There are definitely some very nice motor packages out there other than Merc, but the dealer network, and warranty you get with Merc is the best out there.
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