Reply With QuoteOriginally posted by mike37
**** the Indians
That about says it all. Why can't anybody support themselves any more? It's about time the hand outs stopped.
Originally posted by Essex502
I do, in fact, read the L.A. Times and am very familiar with the article. The man's ancestor is accused of moving off of the reservation when times were bad and the tribal council is now claiming by doing so she "renounced" her membership in the tribe. I also remember that what is at stake is the members participation in the gambling profit's windfall - to the tune of $10,000 per month to each Pechanga tribe member. Now, if they're a Sovereign Nation I'll bet the tribe members aren't paying any taxes on that money either!
Pechanga 2 (http://www.latimes.com/la-me-pechang...,3554752.story)
Pechanga (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,2221376.story)
No they are not taxed on that money at all, I had a friend whos daughter is in the tribe, she gets close to $5,000.00 per month and no taxes taken out. I don't support the $ aspect of all of this, however, we took everything from them, and just like children, you give them $10.00 and they want $30.00 until they are older and then just want more and more until you decide to give nothing at all.....someday we will get to the point where we don't want to give any more and we don't put up this crap.
Originally posted by mike37
**** the Indians
That about says it all. Why can't anybody support themselves any more? It's about time the hand outs stopped.
I still like my idea.
Originally posted by burbanite
I still like my idea.
the problem with this is it seems to be the men with power are the problem, and the ones without can't gather an army big enough to override the authority.
It seems there is no victim here,(except those that lost their home) but more of a power struggle over who is bigger and better.
I understand that people are upset with what CRIT is doing, and rightfully so. But some statements here are a little off the wall.
The Indian Nations are sovereign. But it is the PEOPLE that are sovereign, not the land they are on. I think all Tribes would be happy if they would be left alone, by us and the US Government, IF they were given back what was forcefully, or fraudulently taken and/or swindled from them.
How would you like it if the Government came onto your property, destroyed or seized all you had, and moved you to a barren wasteland and were told that this is now where you must live? Instead of speaking and learning english, your kids were taken away to a special school and forced to speak some other foreign tongue? How would you like it if the Government held all your property, money, assets, etc. in trust, only giving to you what they thought was best for you? And that you had to get permission from them before you could do ANYTHING!
That is what life is and was like for the American Indian people. And it's not so ancient History. The Cherokees were put on rolls from 1898 - 1906 as a way of giving them plots of land in Oklahoma in order to disband the Tribe, and ensure that they do not continue as an organized Nation. The Western Cherokee Nation didn't catch on and re-form into a "Tribe" until the 1930s. Membership in the Tribe is now based on direct lineage to a member on those "rolls". The very rolls that were used to try and destroy the Cherokees, are now used to shore up it's enrollment, and guarantee their future.
There are people alive today that were placed on those rolls. So it's not anything like slavery that happened over 240 years ago. The dis-service our Government did to the Indians in this Country is less than 100 years ago, and in some cases within the last 30 years.
The Cherokees in Oklahoma do not have a Reservation. The 15 eastern Counties, which were originally set up for them as Reservation, and disbanded by the Dawes Rolls are now set up as "Indian Country", allowing them the same priveliges as if it were "Reservation". What property the Cherokees have now, they had to purchase.
Now imagine the Government taking your land, moving you to that barren wasteland and then making you pay for it?
What CRIT is doing is downright wrong, immoral, and unethical. But persecuting all Indians for trying to stand up for THEIR rights is just as wrong, immoral and unethical. The corrupt leadership of those tribes, created by our own government is where the blame lies. The people themselves are just a product of that corruption and the nanny state that the US Government has given them.
And just as a note, Indian income, incuding payouts to the members from Casino profits, is subject to Federal Income Tax. It is the State income tax the are exempt from, if that income came from within the Tribal boundary, and they lived within the Tribal Boundary.
My wife get's no benefits from being an enrolled Cherokee since she doesn't live within the Cherokee Nation Tribal boundaries. They only apply to Indians who live on the Reservation (or area) established for their own Tribe.
Think about what they had to endure over the last 200 years, and in some cases continung today, with their only crime being that they were here first. They are the way they are because WE made them that way.
BoatCop,
I am sensitive to your recent post on these matters and I agree with most of what you say...but its only half the truth. I agree with the explanation you provided on how many indians in fact the vast majority were mistreated as part of the expansion and creation of this country..that is a given. No arguement from me.
But the philosophical and editorial question is this: SO WHAT?
No where on this Globe is there now a nation of modern staure that owes its existence to anything but violent use of a clUb, a sword or gun! Thats how nations are formed. Look at history and show me one counry that is in our history books or a member of the United Nations today that was not created by violent upheaval or agression from an other foreign nation or by revolution violently from with in. The american Indian is no exception and neither is The United States of America!
Thank God for the good ole US of A or the Indians would have this continent in the same shape the indiginous Africans now face themselves in now! What is going on in the Congo would be happening here. Or worst yet the Indiams might have been conquered by the Russians or the Japenses...but they would have been conquered. It just slays me when minority peoples who have the greatest opportunity of any people in the history of the planet act as if they themselfes ( modern day indians today 2004) have been screwed by the creation of the greatest nation on Gods green earth. NOT ONE ****ING INDIAN ALIVE TODAY HAS EVER BEEN HUNTED BY THE CAVALRY AND SLAUGHTERED BY THE US ARMY!
These indians have more opportunity than white people in Europe or for that fact any other people in the world by virture of the fact the indians were born and live in the United States !
The indians have refused to assimilate into the American mainstream and thats their problem. Where are their leaders? Why aren't the indian leaders demanding excellence of their people and saying no shouting: GET YOUR ****ING LAZY ASSES OFF THE RESERVATION AND GO TO WORK. LEARN HOW TO COMPETE , SEND YOUR KIDS TO SCHOOL AND MAKE SOMETHING OF YOOR SELVES!
Aren't the indians just humiliated that immigrants with out citizen staus come here like from Jamaica or VietNam not speaking the language and make millionaires of themselves and their families and their sets the indian nations CRYING BOOHOO our abcestors got ****ed by the white man and we cant achieve any more than second class citizen stature in the greatest nation on the planet.
Yes I agree with you the government has crippled the indians and their movement by giving them reservation status with soverign nation previges. But the real reason the indians are in the fix they are in and why they so quickly screw their neighbors is because they honestly believ they are not us...regular good ol fashion Americans! Even the Cuban immigrant that escaped Castro has more in common with the average American the nmodern American Indian movement.
What it is is that the indians at CRIT lack personal values of decency, capitalism, hardworking ethic and a respect for property rights... B E C A U S E THE RESERVATION MENTALITY IS AN ANTIAMERICAN COLLECTIVE! WITH ITS LIKENING TO SOCIALIST RUSSIA AND FACIST ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Indian children on the reservation grow up with no regard for what has made ther reat of us great! That is that good ol Red, White , and Blue Capitalist values of Judeo Christian origins flow through our viens...whether they want to admitt it or not.
The indians want a return to their roots of living in the stone age and a return of their natural lands to roam free...yeah just like the ****ing third world peoples of the Congo. tell the idiot American Indian movement to go and see Africa first hand and then tell them to quit wanting to live in poverty in the dirt like cavemen...because thats where they would all live if left up to the indian leaders.
Except those that manage the Casinos they would be living in nice pads and driving Escalades!
I can say this as harshly as I do because I am of Indian and Mexican decent and thank the lord my father and mother saw the greatness of the American way and routinely said **** the indians and their movement its just about a few screwing most of the other indians by brainwashing them that all indians are victims!
Very well said.. Its amazing what I learn on this forum
You Go Busti!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reservation land in AZ is over 19,000,000 acres... About 2/3's the land on both California and Arizona along the Colorado between Mexico and the tristate area is Indian land...
http://www.uwec.edu/geography/Ivogeler/w188/i3a.gif
To the Indians: Evolve your community or get left behind and be forever a welfare union........ Don't blame your current misfortune on the American anglo population of today. 80% of us have no real connection to what happened 200 years ago... Get ver it and move on... History is just that, history...
Plus all of what Busti said...
Hell, if you add all of that land together it looks to be about the same size as Indiana and Ohio, they should have given both of those to the Indians instead, no-one would have cared...
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