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Thread: Greenspan proposes Social Security Cuts

  1. #1
    AzDon
    For everybody that doesn't think that the government would consider stealing from the neediest of Americans in order to sustain oversized tax cuts for the wealthy, read what Alan Greenspan, Fed Chairman and Republican economic guru, thinks we should do to shrink the deficit!
    http://www.nwherald.com/spider/NWH/n...566767407.html

  2. #2
    Havasu_Dreamin
    Get a grip, Social Security is going to go bankrupt with or without the deficit. This is nothing new. The cuts should have been long ago. Or better yet, don't make cuts, how about stop paying for people that never even paid into the system.
    Let me give you a little background, on a personal level, of how screwed up the social security system is. My mom passed away in 2001. She worked for 30+ years paying into the "system" and guess what, according to the Social Security Administration the chances of my dad seeing one dime of what she paid in when he retires is almost non-existent, for al intents and purposes! The money that the government took from my mom's paycheck for 30 years "in-trust" is just gone, put back into the system to pay for programs and people that have not paid into it at all! So, don't come whining to me about Social Security! I'm not even going to count on it being there. It's just another social program with good intentions that the government managed to screw up!

  3. #3
    Outnumbered
    Originally posted by Havasu_Dreamin
    Get a grip, Social Security is going to go bankrupt with or without the deficit. This is nothing new. The cuts should have been long ago. Or better yet, don't make cuts, how about stop paying for people that never even paid into the system.
    Let me give you a little background, on a personal level, of how screwed up the social security system is. My mom passed away in 2001. She worked for 30+ years paying into the "system" and guess what, according to the Social Security Administration the chances of my dad seeing one dime of what she paid in when he retires is almost non-existent, for al intents and purposes! The money that the government took from my mom's paycheck for 30 years "in-trust" is just gone, put back into the system to pay for programs and people that have not paid into it at all! So, don't come whining to me about Social Security! I'm not even going to count on it being there. It's just another social program with good intentions that the government managed to screw up!
    Amen,
    Just take a trip down to any local Government office and experience the "efficiency" of the operation and then tell me you would trust the Feds to be your investment banker. I could easily double the return for investment if I had the option of keeping all of my social security tax. SS should be an optional program for those who are too stupid or to lazy to invest on their own.
    Oh and BTW, those "wealthy" folks are the ones keeping this economy rolling. Helping out the business owners and employers trickles down to all. Bogging them down in overtaxation just slows the economy and hurts everyone but the welfare recipients.
    OL

  4. #4
    AzDon
    I'd be completely okay with having all my Social Security funds refunded to me so I can bank them for myself. If they keep withholding the money from people's paychecks and then just steal the money, then it's nothing more than a paycheck tax.
    As far as wealthy folks stimulating the economy by increasing production, hiring people, or opening new businesses, I gotta call BS on this one and here's why:
    In a declining consumer economy, no businessperson is going to do any of these things if he percieves that there is soft or non-existent demand for his product or service, REGARDLESS OF HOW BIG A TAX CUT HE GETS!
    On the other hand, business creation, hiring, and increased production WILL HAPPEN WITHOUT TAX CUTS if a strong market is percieved for the product! a businessman will borrow the money, if necessary, to service his consumer, and financial institutions and the stock markets will willingly provide the money.
    My point is that the economy isn't driven by the rich guy. It is driven by consumer demand!
    As the wages of Americans are being driven steadily downward, fewer will be consumers for new boats, automobiles, computers, etc. New houses will continue to be built only as long as there are buyers that can be qualified at their income level to make the payments.
    Perhaps you don't have a problem with Taco Bell paying your teenager $5/hr while he/she lives with you and is essentially lifestyle-subsidized by your generosity and living-wage job, but when your employer and his competitors decide to pay Taco Bell wages, or worse, move production to Mexico, I'm bettin' that you won't be buying a new boat even if your taxcut was 50 grand...get it?

  5. #5
    sorry dog
    I believe the economic classication of Social Security tax would be Tranfers payments. In other words, gov't tranfers some of Peter's money to Paul (I guess because Paul is old and didn't save, or Paul was always poor, or Paul is a bench racing fag or whatever). I guess to justify it to Peter, gov't says when you get to be like Paul, you'll get money too.
    I think I got an email similar to this a while back titled Can't lose pyrimid scheme.
    Rich folks are a part of Consumer Demand too - as long of the wealth holds out. I wonder what the stats are on wealth accumulation lately?

  6. #6
    carbonmarine
    Its just moves to another segment..... if you son has to count on Taco Bell long term ... obviously you didnt spend enough time with him dude.. Shit I worked at Del Taco at 14 yrs old.... taught me to be humble and how to work and what not to do for the rest of my life ...
    In So far as Jobs moving around the world....
    This is America !
    A Captialist Society that has turned into a well fair state...
    No one ever said you were guarenteed shit !!! and that needs
    to be taught in schools ... and at home. If you have older bros & sisters. The lesson comes quick at dinner time. ** Find away to eat fast or creative way to get yours... or its GONE !
    Geeezusss, This society used to be based upon the premise competition, not entitlements and thats what made America kick ass and if ya didnt like it ... You were always free to find away and start you own company and make you own decisions.....
    Seems to me, other countries around teh world are being better Americans than us Americans....
    just my .02
    Rick

  7. #7
    MagicMtnDan
    Originally posted by AzDon
    I'd be completely okay with having all my Social Security funds refunded to me so I can bank them for myself. If they keep withholding the money from people's paychecks and then just steal the money, then it's nothing more than a paycheck tax.
    As far as wealthy folks stimulating the economy by increasing production, hiring people, or opening new businesses, I gotta call BS on this one and here's why:
    In a declining consumer economy, no businessperson is going to do any of these things if he percieves that there is soft or non-existent demand for his product or service, REGARDLESS OF HOW BIG A TAX CUT HE GETS!
    On the other hand, business creation, hiring, and increased production WILL HAPPEN WITHOUT TAX CUTS if a strong market is percieved for the product! a businessman will borrow the money, if necessary, to service his consumer, and financial institutions and the stock markets will willingly provide the money.
    My point is that the economy isn't driven by the rich guy. It is driven by consumer demand!
    As the wages of Americans are being driven steadily downward, fewer will be consumers for new boats, automobiles, computers, etc. New houses will continue to be built only as long as there are buyers that can be qualified at their income level to make the payments.
    Perhaps you don't have a problem with Taco Bell paying your teenager $5/hr while he/she lives with you and is essentially lifestyle-subsidized by your generosity and living-wage job, but when your employer and his competitors decide to pay Taco Bell wages, or worse, move production to Mexico, I'm bettin' that you won't be buying a new boat even if your taxcut was 50 grand...get it?
    Don, you're a smart guy, maybe a bit confused at times but you make some good points but they're buried in the other stuff.
    Wages aren't "being driven steadily downward." Businesses mature, products become commodities, education levels go up, people are more qualified, low-skill jobs get done for less here and/or abroad and high-skill jobs are available.
    As jobs move offshore it helps those countries raise their levels up (earnings, education, income) and they become our customers where they weren't able to before.
    This country is never going to be able to compete with India, China and Mexico for labor. It will not no matter how much you want it or fantasize about it. Our country continues to evolve and as it does it helps the rest of the world (a) want to become like us (economically) and (b) become more like us. And as they do it's better for us because they become our "customers" buying products from American companies (blue jeans, computers, cell phones, etc.).
    Our challenge as it always has been, is to continue to innovate and develop technologies and from them come businesses and more jobs. We need a highly educated workforce (notice how high school diploma is as valuable as toilet paper in the business world today - college diplomas aren't enough any more - companies want and demand advanced degrees now).
    I work at a high-tech startup involved in microdevices - microscopic mechanical devices. There are no jobs from our company moving offshore. In fact, we're almost always looking for talented engineering types.
    As this country grows and develps the rest of the world benefits and serves us (by handling the low-skill, low-wage jobs). It's called success, progress, growth, prosperity, and capitalism. No one wants jobs to leave the US but the ones that are leaving can and will help this country in the end. In the meantime we are all challenged to grow and develop. Don't let your kids be satisfied - teach them that their future will be more secure with more education.

  8. #8
    bigq
    Originally posted by AzDon
    then it's nothing more than a paycheck tax.
    I have 37 more years till i can receive SS benefits and I don't plan on seeing one dime of it, so yes it is a paycheck tax. I am all for finding a way to pay for the people on it ,but I want to slowly transfer this money back to us, as in a personal retirement account.

  9. #9
    AzDon
    Dan-
    There is a whole other side of town from where you apparently live.... It's the side of town where things are being transported, stacked, moved with forklifts and warehoused. It's the high-crime side of town where sanitation workers, waitresses, minorities, housekeepers, factory workers, and non-union tradesmen live. Many who live on this side of town are ex-cons, single parents, drug addicts and other hard-luck types. The test scores in the local schools are not that great and folks here are pretty much written off as useless by folks on your side of town because of all the problems here. Many folks on this side of town are willing to work hard even though they are constantly being disrespected by having their wages cut as fewer available jobs creates an oversupply of labor. These are often folks that lack the smarts to get educated for the cutting edge jobs you talk about. They are simply people that want to live the American dream at a lower tier and have accepted their place in society.
    This side of town is growing as your side of town is shrinking creating an increasing challenge to folks on your side of town to find a consumer base with buying ability against this backdrop of declining wages.
    It's unfortunate that we have a supremely elected president that has never seen, nor even acknowleges the existence of, the side of town where the folks live that do all the menial things that keep the infrastructure running. He sees no harm in underpaying these folks rather than thanking them for their underpaid contribution. He also has no problem with taxing their crumbs while hand-delivering complete cakes to the folks on the wealthy side of town.
    The lesson of world history that the unsympathetic folks on your side of town need to learn is that when severely downtrodden and demoralized folks become a majority, they gravitate to charismatic leaders who overthrow the system through revolution.
    In general, we've been able to vent these frustrations through free speech and the ballot box, but the election of 2000 proved that the party in control of the Supreme Court can ultimately bully their way into office after manipulating the polling process in just one state!

  10. #10
    mirvin
    Uh, SS is not a retirement plan. It was never meant to be a retirement plan. Yes we all pay into it but to depend on it or to assume it's owed back to you is just plain stoopid.
    Be smart with your money and plan for your retirement and stop worrying about Social Security. It's nonsense.
    I think it should be abolished anyway
    Mirvin

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