"the Snoot"

[cyclone]

Originally posted by Jet Hydro
like I said, it`s a STD. 454.... you should be able to figure out from there that it`s pretty mild.
30 locked on the timing
I run 116 on the gas because I get it at the right price
I have 3 MX bikes, 2 dune buggy's ,1 drag car and 2 boats that all get the same fuel.
It`s kinda one of those KISS things ya know
Life made easy that way
I'd venture to say you've got about 600hp in your boat then. Not a bad et/mph if that's the case.

[pops1]

We make all three.
Now lets go back to basics:
All are extension line's of the base set comming from the intake set angle.
IE - The intake is set on most applications at 4 Degrees Down.
(The shaft line is going down 4 degree's out the rear, which comes from the top surface machine cut made on the intake for the suction mount flange or surface).
The intake mounting flange is as cast as it mounts through the bottom. The intake - even though it is machined at 4 degrees (suction mounting surface) to the mounting flange will not always set at the proper 4 degree setting. Front adjuster bolt holes are provided to adjust by lifting the intake to the required height. Upon this being done epoxy is set to seal and bolt in place.
ok we have a 4,5, or 6 degree set up- shaft line down out the rear at the setting.
now add your suction ,bowl, nozzle or droop, and nozzle system or diverter to the unit.
The extension of these components with the 4 degree down angle puts the nozzle at a position to the water. It can be above the water at the water or below the water when the boat takes it set position while running under power. It is this position that you can fine tune
It is the set position that becomes what you are looking for.
An example: We made our short droop for the Rick Green/ Tom Enis Wilder Days Boat. The boat wanted tail lift for its set attitude.
Our std droop was setting to deep on the extension of the above components and actually below the ride plate line @ 2+ degrees up. So we tooled a shorted droop trying to keep the 1" drop of the water yet keeping the shorter length so as not to drag in the water at its set attitude while running. What happened was the boat ran 3 MPH faster. The same droop has now been put on a very large # of tunnel boats and shown the same gain.
Your bottom shallow V deeper V or tunnel tend to set what your boat will like. Remember that the thrust point is where the boat will try to climb to. So say you have a std v bottom, a standard droop would be my first try. The V bottom has the highest amount of possable neg drag ratio (it runs deepest in the water) It also has the highest climb ratio to water to decrease the wetted surface negative #. The standard droop is the longest extension and includes a 1" drop from c/l of shaft to produce the highest lift point of all three. The off set of the standard droop is it also has a 7 1/2 degree up angle at its release point(nozzle attach point) which compensates for the nozzle angle and allows the boat to set further back in its attitude. This is also ideal and highest angle set for those that want the high diverter spray.
The short droop has 3 1/2 degrees up for compensation angle as it is shorter.
The straight extended nozzle housing or snoot has 0 degrees.
All the above have further adjustments by using a nozzle wedge to futher inhance the thrust line. Wedges range in size from 1/2 degree, 1,2,3, and 4 degree's.
Dwayne @ Hi Tech has started to play with the straight nozzle extended concept again and produces a billet machined extension
for this purpose, He has stated to me great success with it.
You do not see any on the west coast racing scene yet. We have a cast unit which we released 8 years ago and have yet to sell more than 10 units to date. So who know's
what tomorrow will bring.
See ya! I read this and now confused also!

[JET-O-VATOR]

That one confused the hell outta me

[Jet Hydro]

Originally posted by pops1
We have a cast unit which we released 8 years ago and have yet to sell more than 10 units to date. So who know's
what tomorrow will bring.
See ya! I read this and now confused also!
Dave, maybe I should try one on the Hydro to see if it`s close to what I run now? I`m going to try the snoot on the SJ <---"The Turd" some time this summer just for the hell of it. I have a Droop on it as of now. I have learned allot about set-up`s and what changes do what. Always looking for something new to try or learn.

[screamdreambrad]

i have the short snoot with 4 degree pin. i have no notes on it as i had never run my boat at phx til weekend before last. my boat is a tom papp racing (heavy layup) left better than ever but other than that i can't add anything else. was .3 too quick for my index so i didn't make any changes to hardware, just slowed it down. i feel that it was worth the purchase for the leave if nothing else. brad p.s. we'll see how it does in red bluff in two weeks.

[pops1]

Originally posted by Jet Hydro
Dave, maybe I should try one on the Hydro to see if it`s close to what I run now? I`m going to try the snoot on the SJ <---"The Turd" some time this summer just for the hell of it. I have a Droop on it as of now. I have learned allot about set-up`s and what changes do what. Always looking for something new to try or learn. iM SURE DWAYNE HAS LOOKED AT YOUR SET UP. IF YOUR HULL SEEMS LIKE IT WANTS TAIL LIFT LOOK AT THE SHORT DROOP. i THINK THE STD. DROOP MIGHT BE TOO MUCH LIFT - YOU HAVE A CONDITION ,ONLY YOU HAVE BEEN THROUGH.
JUST AT LOOKING AT PHOTOS OF YOUR HULL RUNNING, I WOULD NOT THINK YOU WOULD WANT AN EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF TAIL LIFT. DWAYNE & I, ARE NOT SURE HOW MUCH LIFT YOU HULL IS GETTING FROM AIR ENTRAPMENT IF ANY. DIAGRAM OUT WHERE YOUR OPTIMUM SET ATTITUDE IS-WHAT YOUR RIDE PLATE AND NOZZLE ANGLE SETTING IS. YOU CAN EXTEND THAT LINE TO ANY LLENGTH TO SEE IF HARDWARE IS CAUSING YOU A NEG EFFECT OR NOT. tHE FACT THAT THE SNOOT PICKED YOU UP IN MPH TELLS ME SOMETHING HAPPENED IT LIKED. AS YOU HAVE BECOME YOUR OWN SET UP MAN GO BACK AND TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT AND WHY! ITS ALL ABOUT FINDING THE MOST EFFICIENT LINE YOUR HULL WILL RUN ON -SAFE. REMEMBER YOUR CHOKE CREATES HEAD PRESSURE & LIFT ALSO. 3.090 MAY NOT BE YOUR OPTIMUM SIZE. CALL ME! DAVE

[pops1]

Originally posted by Jake W
You guys make me laugh.
I will tell somethings I know.
The snoot did not work on a Sanger supper jet.
It does help out heaver boats.
Alot of people wedge up their droop thus acting like a snoot.
Alot of the race boats you see run a down wedge on their droop.
Ecept for Rogers R and D Express runs a snoot at over 130 MPH this is a Stealth tunnel.
Hear is a couple things I have been told by a pro.
You need to set the ride plate no more than a inch from the bottom of you droop witch in most cases will end up with a down wedge.
Now another builder said the faster the boat is the less droop it needs and they start shimming them up.Or like the ATM stright droop or Aggressors short droop,or the HTP Snoot.
I have used the short Aggressor droop on a heavy V bottom and it sucked.But the regular droop helped it get out of the water.
I have never used the snoot and have asked how it works on a Gullwing and have not seen a responce.
And I have never seen results on any thing other than a heavy tug or a tunnel race boat.Other than the Sanger with bad results,and Squitchs Kachina with mixed results but looks like it is inproving.But he had a Place droop witch has the most drop out of the droops and then went to a snoot.
So really I can not tell you shit this is just some info I have picked up.
Jake jAKE I THINK YOU MADE THE POINT. THE V BOTTOM AND EVEN MORE SO WITH THE HEAVY BOAT WANTS LIFT. IT HAS THE DEEPER DRAFT LINE OF WATER. GET THE BOAT UP HIGHER AND LESS NEG. DRAG. I THINK YOU WILL FIND ALL STD. DROOPS HAVE THE SAME 1' LIFT RATIO- BE IT AMERICAN TURBINE, AGGRESSOR, BERKELEY, DOMINATOR, OR PLACE AS THAT IS A SUBSTANTIAL DROP TO LENGTH RATIO FOR FLOW, AFTER THAT EACH SEEMS TO VARY IN INTERNAL SIZE OR VANE CONTROL.
THE SHORT DROOP WE MADE SPECIFIC TO THE TUNNEL HULL. THAT CAME ABOUT AS WE FOUND THAT MOST TUNNELS WERE DRAGGING THE STANDARD DROOP BELOW THE RIDE PLATE LINE.
EVEN THOUGH IT HAS CLOSE TO THE SAME C/L DROP -YET BECAUSE OF ITS LENGTH (+ THE INTAKE SETTING ANGLE) IT DOE'S NOT DRAG BELOW THE RIDEPLATE DUE TO ITS SHORTER EXTENSION.
THE SNOOT IS A STRAIGHT NOZZLE EXTENSION AND THAT IS ALL.
SO IF YOUR NOZZLE WANTED TO BE LONGER TO OBTAIN THE SWEET SPOT OF RELEASE, IT WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO. REMEMBER- MOST ALL EXTENSIONS ARE DOWN DUE TO INTAKE SETTING, SO LONGER IS DEEPER. THIS NOZZLE TYP. IS RAN ON WEDGES WHICH IS BENDING THE WATER ALSO.
DWAYNE, PUT THE SNOOT ON ROGERS BOAT AFTER TRYING SEVERAL COMBINATIONS BEFORE IT HIT WITH THAT SET UP.
THE R & D EXPRESS HAS A DIFFERENT SET UP THEN MOST OTHER PAPP TUNNELS. IT IS RUNNING A STANDARD INTAKE MACHINED @ 5 DEGREES NOT 4. IT ALSO IS RUNNING SHOE BELOW THE KEEL, WHICH DWAYNE DID NOT LIKE DOING, YET SAY'S ITS THE ONLY WAY THAT BOAT WILL LOAD, LAUNCH & LEAVE RIGHT.
ITS IMPRESSIVE AND THE COMBINATION WORKS.

[Jet Hydro]

Dave, I have learned a few things about this hull that has helped with set up`s. It doesn't like the droop because the hull creates it`s own lift with the air entrapment.
The air entrapment is something you cant see in this hull for some reason but you can "fell it" when you get up to speed. That in it self has made it a hard one to find set-up`s for.
I have found that the ride plate with the length of the nozzle is one of the Key factors to making it handle.
I`v been playing with the length thing on a few other boats and have learned that there are some tricks to pushing a hull forward and not down like the droop seem to do. Thus is my reason for the Straight Snoot. I can plaint the tail but I also get that forward push I`m looking for. It seem`s that most people I talk to try and use the droop to load the intake.
I try to tell them to use the shoe & loader and use the droop and ride plate to make the hull ride where they want it.
I look at it this way, the droop on my boat made it slower than the straight snoot because the droop was putting to much tail pressure on the hull. The straight Snoot took the tail pressure off the tail freeing up some drag thus the reason for the MPH change. The RPM`s went up because with less tail pressure I had less intake presser. Now I need to lower the shoe to get the intake pressure back up and I`m sure I`ll see a few more MPH?
I tried a 3.125 insert but the 3.090 was were we saw the increase in mph. The 3.090 has worked best on most of the hull`s tested with the Straight Snoot from what I`v been told.
It`s funny how 1 change makes for about 10 other changes ...lol.....It`s like fighting a teeter-totter
We are also getting ready to run the shoe on the hydro even with the keel.
I`ll call ya as soon as I can find where I put your number.

[Duane HTP]

Dave, Please give me a call. 417-858-3233. Thanks, Duane HTP

[Jet Hydro]

Duane Please E mail me Dave's number, I`v lost it somewhere in my old cell phone. I`m going MXracing tomorrow but I`ll call em Monday if I live through the weekend.