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QUOTE]Originally posted by ROZ
There was a time when the McIntosh was the ruler in the clarity Kingdom... It's an all time classic. I have a buddy who has one of their old 6 channels up on display in his shop, and he won't budge on the price... I think the upper end Arc, Zapco, and new MB Quart wound probably take it though... [/QUOTE]
Roz you peaked my interest. Being "Old School" myself and not up on todays new companys as alot of people here , I decided to do a little research on the specs for clairity . heres a list of what I found just in case you wanted to know and because I'm stuck at home and bored as hell 
Did I mention I was the first person in our City to get a ticket for having the stereo turned up too loud . 
(No Shit back in 83)
I was running 2 Proton DPD amps on 2 Yamaha 6x9s and 2 6" Polk seaperates and a H.H.Scott LK-72 Tube amp
(Yes I said TUBE !) on a pair of Electro Voice 15"s all in a 1978 Pontiac Firechicken .
According to the manufacture web pages heres where they fall .
At the top of the list and still the King of Clean McIntosh .
McIntosh mod MMC-602
Power- 2 Channel: 300W 8/4/2 ohms;1 Channel: 600W 4/2/1 ohm
THD @ rated - 0.005%
Headroom-1.0dB
freq response -20Hz to 20kHz, +0 / -0.25dB;
X over- 10Hz t0 100kHz, +0 / -3.0dB
input -1V to 8V
sig:noise-114dB (2V)
power: 100A 12.0V Idle: 3.5A Rated
Second up is the Soundstream Van Gogh series
Soundstream Mod - Van Gogh VGA 600.2
RMS Power- 150 x2 @ 4 Ohms 300 x2 @ 2 Ohms 600 x1 @4 Ohms
Freq Resp - 10 - 50k
THD @ rated - <0.02%
Sig:Noise - 115dB @ 2.0V
Damping - >500
Next in line at a close race for second was the ARC . pricewise probobly a better bang for the buck than the previous two.
ARC Mod - XXK 2500
Output power : 270x2@4ohms, 525x2@2ohms, and 1,050x1 4ohms bridged
Frequency response: 20Hz-20Khz
Transient distortion : < 0.05% @4ohms
Sig:Noise - > 105dB
Comming in third was the Zapco line. A strong performer and definately an excellent product.
Zapco Mod - C2K6.0
Output power : 150x2 @ 4Ohms 300x2 @ 2 Ohms
600x1 @4 Ohms and 1200x1 @ 2 Ohms
Frequency Response: 20Hz - 20kHz; +0 dB/-0.32 dB
T.H.D. + Noise: <0.014%
Damping Factor: >1000 (awesome)
Sig:Noise - 100dB
Bringing up the rear of the pack for the ,
Clairity spec as I read it compitition
are JBL and MbQuart with specs so close to eachother it makes me wonder if they are using the same boards and just branding their name to them .
JBL Mod - PX600.2
RMS Output Power - 180x2@4 Ohms
Freq resp.- 10 - 97k
Sig:Noise - 79.5 dB
THD 0.1% + Noise .
Mb Quart Mod - RAA2400
Power Output - 400 Watts RMS x 2 channels at 2-Ohms
Sig:Noise - >75dB
THD < 0.5% +Noise
I tried to get the best specs from each company.
I beieve the specs advertised are a general adverage and shouldnt be a replacement for an actual spec sheet drawn out in a sound lab.
If you can find better ones I would like to read about them .
C.T. :wink:
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What is audible THD?
If you really feel that strongly, take RC's $15K amp challenge. To date, I believe lab results (combined with subjective evaluation) have proven that not one amp can be differentiated...a watt is a watt (tube or not).
However, it's kinda funny though that you took the time to look up marketing specs when someone disagrees with you.
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Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
What is audible THD?
If you really feel that strongly, take RC's $15K amp challenge. To date, I believe lab results (combined with subjective evaluation) have proven that not one amp can be differentiated...a watt is a watt (tube or not).
However, it's kinda funny though that you took the time to look up marketing specs when someone disagrees with you.
True HH a clean watt is a clean watt . weather it be Spark-O-Matic , JBL or whoever . Now I prefer a Clean watt with as much available headroom as I can get . and the ability to recover from peak loads quickly is another plus . The ability to go from absolute silence to a screaming jet engine doesnt hurt either .
And last but not least the ability to reproduce a clean audio signal without the coloration and the compression that is so common with alot of transistor amps . as technology continues to progress manufactures have almost perfected the transistor to supply music lovers with the clairity and definition as found in vacume tube equiptment the debut of the torroidal core transformers and MOSFETs back in the early 80s was a big step forward in power supply technology .
I didnt think Roz was disagreeing with me he to insite an arguement , nor did I post my opinion on my findings to start one either . I did it out of couriosity and boredom just to see what I could find and posted it in hopes that some would find it as interesting as I did .
I am open to all views of opinion weather I agree or not.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. K?
Oh and almost forgot , "What is audible THD ? "
If your asking for a percentage number I would guess 15% should be fairly audible at some frequencies depending on what the signal source was
are we listening to Bach , Beastie Boys , a white/pink noise generator or a sine wave from a signal generator an a specified frequency.
I suppose i would also depend on the loudspeakers are they Spark-O-Matic ? If were using Spark-O-Matic speakers we'll never hear the distortion
Have a good evening .
C.T. :wink:
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Hmmmm....I have installed/owned and/or listened to every amp on that list. After all the years I've been involved (I was also designing and installing competition systems in the 80's), I have come to three conclusions:
1. There is no audible differentiation between any of those high-end amps mentioned in a watt to watt (apples to apples) comparison.
3. Every amp on that list has a power supply that can provide more than enough headroom in a car audio environment (big change from the 80's).
2. Not being involved in the business anymore, I constantly find myself struggling to keep up with changes (Roz has an advantage here).
So if you take SQ out of the equation (after all, this is going in a boat), I look a little further- like quality in manufacturing, efficiency (heat), and value.
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Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Hmmmm....I have installed/owned and/or listened to every amp on that list. After all the years I've been involved (I was also designing and installing competition systems in the 80's), I have come to three conclusions:
those were the good ole days for me I spent 5 Yrs in Tampa FL. doing the same thing and loved every min of it . I grew up pestering the hell out of my grandfather in his electronic repair shop, I was always looking for something to tear up and it's been in my blood ever since
1. There is no audible differentiation between any of those high-end amps mentioned in a watt to watt (apples to apples) comparison.I Agree the ears wouldnt be able to tell the difference
3. Every amp on that list has a power supply that can provide more than enough headroom in a car audio environment (big change from the 80's).I agree here too.
2. Not being involved in the business anymore, I constantly find myself struggling to keep up with changes (Roz has an advantage here). Ive come to the conclusion that there's no keeping up with it unless it's your profession .
So if you take SQ out of the equation (after all, this is going in a boat), I look a little further- like quality in manufacturing, efficiency (heat), and value. Thats the ticket esp in marine applications it's a hot , wet and violent environment not many devices will survive extended periods of time
C.T. :wink:
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More research eh ? :idea:
well if I wasn't tied up down here in the shop tinkering around with the boat I would dive right in . right off the top of my head as I remember the Head unit to beat back in the day was
Nakamichi. ain't it beautimus ?
Give me a rotary output potentiometer any day
C.T. :wink: http://www.***boat.com/image_center/...d700ii_new.jpg
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