Excessive Engine Clearance problems

[Mighty Thor]

I seem to have excessive clearance between the rocker arms and the valve stems. according to some on this list that may result in less than peak proformance and Moisture collecting on the inside of the engine. I am begining to think all those guys might be right.http://www.classicglastron.com/messageboard/images/2856_Head.jpg

[gregr1971]

hey thor,you might want to catch that pushrod before you got to pull the intake too!, did you loosen them or were they like that when you took the valve cover off?they look adjustable to me,you might want to RE adjust them.

[Mighty Thor]

They were like that when I pulled the valve cover, which I did cause it was running crappy, popping through the intake and sucking water into the oil. What is just as bad is that most of the rest of them are really loose also. I was planning on swaping the intake at some point anyhow so now I am going to pull the top end apart and make sure it is done right.

[victorfb]

holy crap, yea id say they are loose. if thats how it was when you pulled the valve cover, you have some issues to take care of for sure. especially on that one cylinder. no pushrod at all on the exhaust and the intake rocker is off the valve stem. id be surprized if you werent missing the lifter on that exhaust too if it was ran like that. pull it apart and get someone who has the knowledge to help you out.

[EXTREMEBOATS]

Something else to check, Set the lash at 0 and roll it over, check the lift at the push rod, compare it to others, intake to intake, exaust to exaust. It may have a lobe gone thus explaining the pop out the carb. I have a BBC in the shop right now for that. Same symtoms, From experience "to much" hydrolic cams just ain't what they use to be... going roller from now on :notam: :messedup: Mike

[Mighty Thor]

I opened up the engine and discovered three bent pushrods, two lifters had spit out thier guts and all of the rocker arm nuts were only finger tight. I will have to check to see if any of the valves are stuck or not but it looks like some dummy put this engine together without setting the valves. Now I am worried about what else may not have been done. I am torn between just fixing the stuff I have found or pulling the engine and starting from scratch so I know what is and is not done.

[kp216]

I am torn between just fixing the stuff I have found or pulling the engine and starting from scratch so I know what is and is not done.
I know what I would do to maintain my own peace of mind... ;)

[XClutchboy725]

With all that water in the oil, you may have flattened a bunch of cam lobes. That would explain all the loose tolerances. :cry:
Take that intake manifold off and post a pic!

[Mighty Thor]

Duane suggested that the water might be due to the valve problem, said fords are prone to that. I'm here in Montana and our boat season is short so I would like to get this thing done ASAP, but cash is tight right now cause property taxes just got paid so this is the worst time to try to pay for a full on build. Rats!

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I think as a minimun I'd pull her down far enough to check the cam lobes as advised and then de-doo the top end myself. I don't know if the rocker nuts could loosten on their own but, just in case, on my 454, once I install my full valve springs (another 6 to 8 running hours) I'll be putting my waiting set of polylocks on. I'm only running the outer and dampner and, after buying new long-slot rockers to go with the new cam, am still breaking the whole works in with lighter pressures.

[R.A.D.man]

Hope this is not considered a hijack, but how does loose valve lash lead to moisture in the oil?

[Mighty Thor]

I honestly don't know myself the technical functions but I assume that the water must come in through the exhaust and with a screwed up exhaust pulse the water ends up getting sucked into the cylinders durring the overlap. I could envision that when one cylinder is supposed to be pushing exhaust out and it is not there is a low pressure area that would tend to suck air and moisture from somewhere else. Again, I am only guessing here, but I know that there is an exhaust pulse that is intended to help scavage burned gasses from the cylinders and this can only happen by creating a pressure differential in the exhaust system. I know I tend to heed Duane's advice cause he carries good credentials with him.
In the mean time I am looking at locking nuts for the rocker studs. When I mentioned that they were only finger tight, I mean the nuts easily spun up and down the threads of the rocker studs. Even I know that isn't supposed to be like that.
I have decided to put my top end together right and see what happens. If the cam is goofed it won't do any more damage that there is now The Bottom end was not making any noise. and I had good oil pressure so if this fix gets me on the water for a little while I can evaluate what else needs to be done to get the whole boat sorted out. As it is, I have had this thing wet for a total of about an hour and a half and that includes loading and unloading from the trailer.

[R.A.D.man]

Thor, thanks for the input on the water in the oil. I was just lost on that one.

[victorfb]

if you must just reassemble the top end and run it, may i suggest you atleast find every little piece of the broken parts. flush the motor real well and after you do assemble it, check each cam lobe via the rockers to see if they are all matching lift specs. (exh to exh and intake to intake) turn it over by hand and see if all the valves are operating properly and not hitting any pistons. it is possible that you have hydrolocked the engine which would cause the bend pushrods and shattered lifters, and of course the water in the oil. there is a possability that the bottom end is just fine. but before you blow out the bottom end, make sure things are spining freely and working properly by spinning the motor by hand. a leak down test would be highly recommended aswell. a blown head gasket could have caused your problem to begin with and will do it again with maybe even worse outcome. good luck.

[Squirtin Thunder]

I seem to have excessive clearance between the rocker arms and the valve stems. according to some on this list that may result in less than peak proformance and Moisture collecting on the inside of the engine. I am begining to think all those guys might be right.http://www.classicglastron.com/messageboard/images/2856_Head.jpg
Thor,
Those rocker might not have a long enough slot in them and are 1.75-1 ratio. Also those nut have always sucked for me, they always get loose, I just put a set of polly locks on and calll it good. Pioneer make a set of long slot replacement rail 1.75 rockers but for the cost you can get a good set of Crane or Comp full roller rockers at 1.73-1 and they come with polly locks.
Jim

[Mighty Thor]

Thor,
Those rocker might not have a long enough slot in them and are 1.75-1 ratio. Also those nut have always sucked for me, they always get loose, I just put a set of polly locks on and calll it good. Pioneer make a set of long slot replacement rail 1.75 rockers but for the cost you can get a good set of Crane or Comp full roller rockers at 1.73-1 and they come with polly locks.
Jim
Hey jim,
I sealed the water passages and put air to the engine, it held 25 lbs and didn't leak down so I am pretty sure the block and heads are OK. I have ordered a set of locking nuts and if this thing finally gets running right I will follow up with a better valve train. How can I tell the difference between the 1.71 and 1.75 rockers? I did measure the lift and all of the exhausts matched each other so I thing the cam is ok. I made sure that everything was rotating without making contact before I started putting things back toghether and so far so good, I hope to try it again this weekend.

[Squirtin Thunder]

Hey jim,
I sealed the water passages and put air to the engine, it held 25 lbs and didn't leak down so I am pretty sure the block and heads are OK. I have ordered a set of locking nuts and if this thing finally gets running right I will follow up with a better valve train. How can I tell the difference between the 1.71 and 1.75 rockers? I did measure the lift and all of the exhausts matched each other so I thing the cam is ok. I made sure that everything was rotating without making contact before I started putting things back toghether and so far so good, I hope to try it again this weekend.
The CJ429 are the only other BBF adjustable rockers There are also 351C adjustable rockers that are the same, 1.73-1. You can use 1.7-1 BBC rockers but must use guide plates on any non rail rocker !!! Also what length push rod are you using ???

[Mighty Thor]

The CJ429 are the only other BBF adjustable rockers There are also 351C adjustable rockers that are the same, 1.73-1. You can use 1.7-1 BBC rockers but must use guide plates on any non rail rocker !!! Also what length push rod are you using ???
Heck, I didn't Measure them, I just replaced em. I will have to measure and let you know later. my book just said to torque the nutsto 25 footpounds . if there issome other procedure for settig the lifter preload what is it? I looked at several different references and could only find the one procedure.

[Squirtin Thunder]

The rocker are the same as Daves and those are 1.75 rail rockers. Those ones that Dave has are long slot Pioneers !!! I will get the link and post it up for you.

[Squirtin Thunder]

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=faq&id=3

[Squirtin Thunder]

Well whats the story ???????????

[Mighty Thor]

Thanks Jim, your the Best! I installed the jetovator cable tonight and will probably try to fire the boat again tomarrow. I did touch it off last night just to make sure it would fire, but did not let it run. Here's hoping it goes ok.

[EXTREMEBOATS]

Thor
I know you checked the lift on the exaust but did you also check the intake? From my own past assumptions and regretful conclusions to many times have I found myself back in the motor because I assumed everything was fine. My advice, Check everything.... In the valve trane. Push rod ends,lifters,cam lobes, rocker arms and even the studs. Leave no stone unturned and use your toy with confidence. Just my H2O "from my past" Good luck
Mike

[Mighty Thor]

Thanks everyone for all of the advise. I have posted a new thread that shows the results of our test today. as a result of the runs we made today I am going to put in some upgraded valve parts. The lack of water in the oil today was exactly as Duane predicted. Valves working right = no water in the oil. I have some small issues with water seeping elsewhere including the exhaust manifolds. I will solve those issues with the next series of repairs.